Reality Check

[JRB]

This forum is for the sharing of information, thoughts and ideas. What good could possibly come from intentionally not mentioning any quality kiltmaker when advice is asked? I think you should definitely keep enlightening people about Kathy Lare on the forums. You obviously know that she makes beautiful kilts. To not share that with those who are searching for a kiltmaker would make this forum less than it should be.

[ForresterModern]

Ron

Consider your recommendations of Kathy Lare vindicated, valid and welcomed by all but maybe a couple folks here on xmarks. There will always be somebody who feels the need to voice their opinion about your voicing your opinion, instead of actually at the substance of that opinion. In your case the substance is, well, substantial and valid. Kathy Lare is a great kiltmaker. I do not own one yet but I am still early into the kilt collection process. I own machine sewn kilts from JHiggins, Heritage of Scotland, Scottishkilts, Tartanweb, Burnetts-Struth, Fredonline (casual), and now my first handsewns from Bonnie Heather and Barb T. Very early in the game my second and third kilts from HoS came to me a bit oversized. After conversing with the customer service folks at HoS and remeasuring they said the kilts were made to the size I stated but I had measured wrong---tough noogies for me. At your recommendation I contacted Kathy by phone, had a great chat, sent her the kilts, she called back to talk about the otpitons, and she made the needed alterations as discussed at a reasonable price. I agree, she is not particularly computer centered with her business, as I am sure she is busy enough with the word of mouth business, although her web page tells pretty much all---basically what the prices are, but to call her for specifics since tartan prices and availability vary from week to week. That is how she works.

There is a Lare Handsewn in my future collection, just as there is likely a Newsome (if he doesn't get too old and senile before he gets to the bottom of his cue), along with possibly others from this forum who may or may not promote themselves well here.

I would take this particular xmarker's comments for what they are, one man's opinion, and only that, certainly not the majority opinion around here. I would continue to sing Kathy Lare's praises, just as I have begun to sing the praises of Bonnie Heather and (like I need to really) Barb T for the kilts they have made for me. If some people get tired of it let them avoid reading your posts.

I for one enjoy your posts and particularly your singular way of looking at the world. Don't change becasue of one dissenting voice---let the consenting ones drown that one out.

[Riverkilt]

Particular thanks to Alex and Rex but for sure to all so far. Was only asking for feedback to do a reality check and for sure received some.

Perhaps fodder for another thread someday, but briefly, the Keith Kilt School teaches what "they" consider a traditional method of hand sewing kilts. Their graduates test for the kiltmaking qualification from the Scottish government (hope that's accurate). This method taught by Keith Kilt School seems to have many differences from how other kiltmakers sew up a kilt. The most common phrase I hear is a "tailored" kilt. Meaning sewn up as a tailor would, rather than a traditional kiltmaker would. Not saying any method or kiltmaker is better or worse than another - its personal choice of the kilt purchaser for sure.

Alex and Rex helped me understand that I should be clearer in pointing out that there are a few dozen Keith Kilt School graduates, sewing kilts in the traditional manner they were taught, living around the World with most in the U.K.

Kathy just happens to be the only one living in North America. That allows me, as an American, to obtain kilts sewn in the manner taught at Keith Kilt School without having to deal with an overseas kiltmaker.

And, as others have mentioned she's a charming lady deeply passionate about kilts. I've found her outstanding at locating sources of uncommon tartans - often multiple tartans. She's well known and well respected by all the mills. She doesn't play favorites, she locates what the customer wants. The cloth for my ten kilts came from five different mills.

There is one reason NOT to share such a treasure with my friends on this board...she'd be too busy for me to get my kilts sewn up...but hey, I've got ten already.

I'm drifting here. Main point is to thank you for your feedback - which is what I asked for. This forum is such a treasure that whenever there is a indication I've done "wrong" or offended the fear of losing the fellowship and inside information leaps to the fore.

Ron

[KiltedKnome]

Ron

You are very supportive of Kathy Lare's craft, and obviously proud to be an owner of her wares. It does (to me, anyway) come across that you feel that her training makes her the only properly trained kiltmaker in the US. There have been times when I have read your posts and you appear to be downplaying the skills and wares of other traditional kiltmakers, by "automatically" comparing their training to Kathy's. If I were those other kiltmakers (the ones who are on the forum), I would feel like I was having to defend my training and my skills.

My interpretation of your comments (in previous posts) may be in error, but that is one of the pitfalls of written forums -- the reader interprets the text in light of the reader's bias. Written communication like this does not easily permit for immediate response and clarification, nor for shared visual cues (eyebrows raised, rolled yes, etc.). The reader sometimes "walks away" from the "conversation" muttering under his or her breath. This is one of the reasons why a poster should read his or her comments with a view to "how will this be interpreted" before posting. Having said that....I will now reread this post.

To summarize, I encourage you to be supportive of Kathy Lare. But be supportive with a view of how your posts might be interpreted.

[Riverkilt]

Thanks Bobby,

That's what I'm looking for in this reality check. I will do that search thing and go back and see what I've said and how it may have offended someone....though as you say, its a computer forum and in real life none of us has control over how others react to what we do, say, don't do, don't say. I'm positive we've all been misunderstood and gasped.

I may have failed in my endeavors to point out that Kathy is full time kiltmaker with a quality reputation to be considered ALONG WITH OTHER KILTMAKERS. Again, the final decision is personal.

I have owned 63 kilts to date. They have been constructed by NINE different kiltmakers. I'm all for personal choice.

In the PM my friend said, "If I were you I would give up trying to support so strongly someone who won't even do something so simple as signing up and participating in the discussions, offering her experience, or even helping out her only supporter."

We've talked about Kathy's demeanor and not being a computer discussion type person and feeling that sewing as a full time kiltmaker comes before participation on ANY forum. Others have noted how she spends extensive time on the phone insuring the customer is satisfied.

The concept that she should "offer her experience" is probably an ethical question for her. The Keith Kilt School has chosen to apprentice through school their kiltmakers. Many respected kiltmakers apprenticed to learn the craft. Kathy spent a lot of money to move to Scotland and attend and graduate from the school. I don't know that she has any obligation to share what she learned if she choses not to. There may also be obligations to the school.

Recently my supervisor asked me to "teach" a new social work graduate about substance abuse counseling since he had no training. I went deep into debt in graduate school to learn the skills and now I'm asked to give them away for free. It causes one pause to think.

But without taking time to do the search to my Kathy Lare posts yet it just doesn't seem that they've put anyone else down - no more than when others sing the praises of their favorite kiltmakers.

I do think its important to point out that there are different ways of sewing up a kilt.

Thanks for the feedback Bobby. I will look at it.

Ron

[kennethrmc]

Hey Ron,

First, I appreciate everyone's input on this forum--whether positive or negative--regarding any and all kilts and kilt makers. The openness and honesty on X Marks is one reason I spend so much time on it. When considering a major purchase (for me, a handmade kilt is a huge major purchase) it is invaluable to have open & honest opinions. When X Markers disagree on any topic, that's extremely valuable

Second, I'm biased on this topic, because (partly due to your posts) my best kilt--in my clan tartan-- was made by Kathy. My wife and I were very impressed visiting with her, the kilt is amazing and I am likewise pleased.

Finally, by admiring the kilts worn by my friends around town I also appreciate the skill of Matt Newsome and other talented US kilt makers. I have learned a great amount from Matt's posts on this forum and on his blog, so I am thankful we have so many talented crafts people keeping the kilt traditions alive!

[Streetcar]

I can see KiltedGnome's point about implying Kathy Lare is "..the only properly trained kilt maker in the U.S." But for what it's worth (as someone who doesn't make kilts) I never had that impression from your posts.

Sometimes it is easy to find unintentional meaning in subjects we are deeply involved in.

[wildrover]

My advice is, ignore the "mean girls", and if they come up to whisper something in yer ear, elbow 'em in the ribs .

Everything I could say has already been said...so...thanks for bringing to my attention a kiltmaker I might otherwise not have known about!

-S

[Abax]

Ron - your posts are among the interesting and entertaining posts on this forum. I too own several Kathy Lare kilts and enjoy them very much.

A post that celebrates the work of another in the form of a review is difficult to compose without sounding like an advertisement. The forum rules say something about that - reviews can't be de facto advertisements.

When a poster says "I want a cheap kilt," and you reply (with something like) "Save your pennies and buy an expensive kilt from Kathy Lare," some readers might think you're stretching the rules. They know many people can't - or won't - afford the spending discretion you advise. But I think you're offering good advice about quality with some exuberance directed towards your favorite kilt maker.

A PM about this? Nah . . . keep it to yourself friend. You, Ron, are who you are, exuberance and all.

Abax

[Urchurdan]

I can't stitch on a button, but I do appreciate fine workmanship - I like to read the DIY posts, and it is due to posts such as yours, that lead me to the web sites of many fine kilt makers around the world - I have just visited the web site of two of our members (I don't know whether to name them or not, getting a bit paranoid) but I am sure you will recognize them if I mention the beautiful double box pleat kilts they make.
I personally get my kilts made by my local kilt maker, why? 1) Because she makes lovely kilts, 2) I like to support local craftspeople - But the main reason, is 3) she always gives me a wee discount as I am a regular customer. Mony a mickle makes a muckle ye ken......