US Campaign Ribbons

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

I recently bought a kilt outfit for my dad (he doesn't know yet). In gathering together the accessories, I remembered seeing men (and a woman) wearing US military campaign ribbons on their Prince Charlies in formal settings...what is the proper protocol on that? Do you have a reference?

Also, that would look grand to wear to formal gatherings, all power to you and your father.

[macwilkin]

Sorry to take this off topic a little, and with the greatest respect to the US servicemen / women, from a former member of the commonwealth services.

http://medals.nzdf.mil.nz/medalsinnz.html

Medallic recognition is hard to obtain due to strict requirements and limitations in commonwealth forces.

There are no ribbons for passing basic training, branch specific training, or anything along those lines, just no ribbons period for anything other than medallic recognition.


This, IMHO, is the reason for the showing on those specific days that Todd has mentioned above (this is from my own experience). Then after that day, back in the box they go for a another year...

And honestly, if there is not a church service for a fallen friend, or something along those lines, you will not see medals, ANZAC day not withstanding.

However as Mac' Rath' has stated multiply times on these forums, all the guff about what to wear will be on invitations...

Even then, I don't wear them, I wear them one day a year, ANZAC day.


Phil C

Good on ya Phil, for this post and your explanation! I am reminded of the photo of the peace arch on the US-Canadian border in Jamie and Star's thread about their trip to B.C. -- "Children of the Same Mother". I think applies to our Aussie and Kiwi Cousins as well.

Todd

[dfmacliam]

Our Aussie and Kiwi cousins are the foundation the US Veteran Affairs stated project "Veterans Pride".. they modeled it from our cousins from down under.. its a very good that we can see a program working and apply it to our veterans too...

I will say this... I feel anyone who wants to wear their medals, should..
I, personally, do not really feel I should... Its more personal to me.. because of the nature of events I experienced.. I am satisfied that people know I served.. and where I served...as for details.... those who understand.. know what I mean...but thats me.. and for everyone, it is different..

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

Our Aussie and Kiwi cousins are the foundation the US Veteran Affairs stated project "Veterans Pride".. they modeled it from our cousins from down under.. its a very good that we can see a program working and apply it to our veterans too...

And so they should, minor comment to add, its not a "program" per say down here, its been around long enough to call it a tradition, and more for the fact that, ANZAC Day, although a terrible campaign in futility, became a day of national identification and pride, not forgetting that NZ only became a dominion in ah...1907ish (I believe), we still had no identity of our own at that stage, as everything was still modelled on the UK.

And from the limited contact that i have had with Americans in general (funnily enough, canucks can be found in their hundreds here), their patriotism and pride is quite a redeeming and admirable part of their character, so I can imagine they will get behind this hopefully 100%.

Regards

Phil C

[cavscout]

I feel the OP's question has been answered about as well as it can be. No more can be said that will clarify further, it is now to the individual making up there own mind on which protocol to follow.

However, the rest of this thread has made it apparent that there is likely a gap in understanding between US and UK views on the kilt and it's perceived appropriate wear.

Since we are taking about Highland dress, and in this instance formal, traditional, Highland dress at that, I would suggest that the socially best course of action, when kilted, might be to follow the British protocols for wearing Orders, Decorations, and Medals with civilian evening attire.

I would not presume to give advice to American vets on how they should wear their decorations, but you are talking about the mixing of two traditions when you are adding the kilt into the equation.It is the kilt and its accompanying attire that I am interested in.

These two quotes imply that the origins of the kilt trump all else. I understand the idea but it is incorrect to many. Wearing a kilt in the US, at least to me, is not an effort to portray myself as Scottish nor to live as a Scot. It is mainly and firstly a functional, practical and attractive way to dress and I will do it to suit my tastes. To many outside of Scotland, the kilt is being assimilated into our own cultures. Taste may be defined by a mix of Scottish and American cultural isms (and maybe more isms), but hey, that's me. This practice may offend some sensibilities but surely a gentlemen would no more criticize any other culture which adapts a few practices of another culture that has been in contact with it.


To assume that because I wear a kilt I must emulate Scottish customs and traditions is incorrect. You might expect it, but as a non-Scot I am in no way obligated to do it. You may take offense to it but it does not make it wrong where I am. You may choose to do other wise but again, that does not make it wrong where I am. Continuing to say "I understand you are an American but that's not how we do it sooooo...." gets quite tedious and comes across very condescending and obnoxious. Believe me, as Americans we realize we do things very different than others. It doesn't mean we think our way is best, it simply is how we do it....no better, no worse. For example, I can accept that Scottish fashion mixes plaids, checks, solids and patterns in one outfit and not need to make a comment about it. I'd hope that some could reserve their comment about not understanding the fuss about the American desire to match an outfit in a particular way and simply understand that it is how many Americans do it.


So to both sides of the pond I would encourage us all to consider that our cultural heritage impacts the advise and recommendations we give to others, as well as the advise we accept from others. Peppering our commnets with "you can do it, but it won't be correct." or "you can get away with it there but not here." is not productive in any conversation.

[Jock Scot]

Cavscout.

I have read and re read your post and frankly I am uneasy about it. However, the mixing of cultures historically has not always been an easy thing to do and when all said and done the mixing of American culture and Scots culture, via the kilt, is hardly a war declaring issue. I am not being condescending here, just pointing out something for you to ponder,if America(USA) was as old as Scotland,traditionally and culturally speaking ,how would you feel if some "new country" started to adopt and adapt your national attire? You might wince a bit once in a while, perhaps?

I for one, admit that I do wince a bit on occasion, but I am also flattered when others from afar want to wear the kilt. It is as well that one should know the rules,conventions, call them what you will, so that when you choose to do your own thing with some one else's culture, upset might be avoided. That way, it does not seem quite so arrogant. I think that is all some one from one culture can ever ask some one from another culture to do in a civilised world. So, I do consider a modest voicing of an opinion on others adapting my national attire, justified.You never know, I may even be a wee tad of help to some of your countrymen!

[Ian.MacAllan]

. . . I am reminded of the photo of the peace arch on the US-Canadian border in Jamie and Star's thread about their trip to B.C. -- "Children of the Same Mother". . .

"We're a' Jock Tampson's bairns."

.

[cavscout]

Yes, when I see the things being done to parachute pants and mullets, it's almost all I can stand but by all means feel free to wear the kilt as you prefer, I’ll not hold it against you ;)

Seriously though, I'm very glad you have that sort of pride. You are correct that as a country we are very young. However, as a former colony we have descended from a similar line and so can assume a place of equal respect in the world of cultures and heritage. The first hand knowledge from members like yourself is very much appreciated by many to provide context of the kilts heritage and examples of how it can be worn.

All I was pointing out was that norms, standards or conventions in the UK are not the same as in the US and simply because someone chooses to wear a kilt for whatever reason, they are not by default required to follow UK protocols which is the impression I usually get when some of our hard core traditionalists begin an almost legalistic lecture of the etiquette and protocols of a Highland Gentlemen to those who obviously are not in the highlands but are still Gentlemen.

Someone who is desirous to emulate the appearance of a Highland Gent would be wise to know and follow the examples of Highland Gents such as yourself and also know when they are divergent. Those simply seeking to present a dashing figure in various situations have the luxury of a bit more latitude. Simply including a kilt in an outfit does not obligate anyone to the Highland conventions, one desires and intentions must come into account as well.

As you say though it is not a war declaring issue, so here's ta us

[Bruce Scott]

...... to us Brits you Americans wearing medals or ribbons with civilian day wear does look out of place.I suppose the mixing of cultures can be confusing, on occasion.

British veterans can be seen wearing medals with civilian day wear on any remembrance day.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

British veterans can be seen wearing medals with civilian day wear on any remembrance day.

What Jock Scot was referring to was the habit of some of the kilt-wearing population in the United States to wear service ribbons, medals, training badges, etc. on civilian attire at Highland Games. These are not only seen on jackets and short sleeve shirts, but also on Prince Charlie coatees being worn by attendees at the games, something one does not see (at least I've never seen it) at Games held in Scotland.