St Andrew's day ink

[EagleJCS]

Just my 2 cents:

Perhaps part of what influences some US citizens' tendency to identify/become enamored with other/past cultures is that their (our) ancestors tended to drop their cultural traditions "at the door", partly in an attempt to assimilate into the local society as quickly as possible and partly because they were more intent on survival and some things had to be sacrificed - or at least adapted - for expediency. Their children and/or grandchildren didn't have the "indoctrination" into what had been generations of tradition because their parents/grandparents didn't want the stigma of being 'foreign'. Keep in mind there was a very strong anti-immigrant feeling in the 1800's US for many years. Anything perceived as 'foreign' was strongly put down. (For example, those of us living in the Louisville, KY, area are periodically reminded of the Bloody Monday riots in which at least 22 people were killed in anti-immigrant violence.)

The third/fourth/fifth generation comes along in the early 1900's (when the anti-immigrant feelings were subsiding) and 'discovers' all of this heritage and becomes enamored with it and feels the need to immerse themselves in something they didn't grow up with. Add to this the new immigrants just arriving with all of these things intact and actually looking for reminders of home. Those people blended in 'new traditions' or made adaptations based on what was available. The people in "the old country" who grew up with those customs and the trappings in their everyday lives look on it as people being foolish and/or over-the-top and make fun of those that make mistakes.

I understand that the same kind of thing has happened in Native American communities as well. "New" Indians (those who grew up in 'mainstream' US society but only recently discovered their Native ancestry) come into the community and try to assimilate, but the only "Indian" stuff they know is what they learned from Hollywood. Those that have been living "on the rez" (whether actually on a reservation or living in 'mainstream' society with their heritage intact) don't quite know what to make of them, or scorn their attempts because "they just don't get it".

As I said, just my 2 cents - I'm not arguing for/against anything or trying to antagonize. I'll go back to my little corner now...

[MacBean]

Perhaps part of what influences some US citizens' tendency to identify/become enamored with other/past cultures is that their (our) ancestors tended to drop their cultural traditions "at the door", partly in an attempt to assimilate into the local society as quickly as possible and partly because they were more intent on survival and some things had to be sacrificed - or at least adapted - for expediency.

Have to agree here. I have moved countries five times, and lived in each long enough to begin to lose my prior identity. I often advise new immigrants to at least keep their festivals and hollidays.

[MacBean]

I'm not so sure about that...

Hmm, made me think there, you did! You have a point.

Let me illustrate what I meant. In Brazil, a reasonably homogeneous culture, a teenager dating a young lady, knows pretty exactly what to expect, and what the rules are. In the USA, the rules vary from house to house, influenced by family culture, religion, region, etc. That said, the world has changed, and old traditions may be disappearing everywhere and faster than I realized.

[MacLowlife]

One need look no further than the Rolling Stones or Eminem or Madonna or UB40 adopting the musical culture of another race to see that ethnicity and "otherness" has been cool since World War II. What has happened in part is the conscious marketing of a Scots brand, along with the awakening of interest so well described by others above.

For my ha' penny, it's a lot more desirable than Sandy McThrift.

[Bugbear]

Oh.. I see what happened, the Mods murged the two threads as suggested.

[beloitpiper]

I don't really consider myself Irish or Scottish. The two halves of my family came from those places, which is why I think of myself as Celtic. I share an ethnicity with the people from those places, and that ethnicity has lended with it a strong shared culture. The Irish, Scots, Welsh, Bretons, and Galatians share a lot of culture, which has since been brought to the US, Canada, Australia, and even parts of South America (such as Y Wladfa and Montserrat).

I'm convinced the American/Canadian Celtic culture is far different from the Celtic traditions found in Ireland or Scotland. The music is related, but it certainly has evolved, just as dancing, clothing, and other traditions have evolved and changed in the New World. For example: American Bluegrass is rooted heavily in Irish and Scottish folk music, but is not totally the same. If it weren't for Celtic-Americans we wouldn't have Celtic punk like the ever-popular Dropkick Murphys. Cape Breton has developed it's own style of Step Dancing that comes from Irish Step Dancing, but is not totally the same and Contra Dancing, which is totally American, came from Scottish Country Dancing. Claddagh rings, worn by almost all of my Celtic friends here, are relatively rare in Ireland. Tweed caps, which someone my age (22) would never wear in Ireland, are worn by all of my Irish-American friends here in the US.

But we also don't forget our roots. We owe almost everything to our ancestors, and for that we like to celebrate. We have some really awesome Highland Games (Maxville, Grandfather Mountain) and Milwaukee's Irish Fest is the largest celebration of Irish music and culture in the world. We wear kilts, play bagpipes, a hold Burns Suppers. We bake soda bread, knit sweaters, and distill whiskey.

We have even created our own Celtic myths and legends in the US. There are the stories of William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, and Bonnie Prince Charlie in Scotland, but in the US, we have Davey Crockett, John Ross (who was a Cherokee Chief), and the 69th New York Infantry during the Civil War.

We have had a long, complex history of our own. We were both the upper class (over half of the signers of the Declaration of Independence could claim Scottish heritage) and the scum of society (No Irish Need Apply, etc.). Boston-Irish and Chicago-Irish even have their own sub cultures that other Celtic-Americans do not share! Sometimes we fought against our Celtic cousins (Andrew Jackson, of Ulster heritage, fought against Highlanders at the Battle of New Orleans), and other times, right beside them (numerous time during WWI and WWII).

So while I feel a strong connection to my cousins across the Atlantic, I am fiercely proud of my Celtic-American heritage and all the achievements that Celtic-Americans have given the world. Thomas Edison alone advanced the phonograph, motion picture, dictaphone, radio, and electric lamp! I love Scotland, and I just lived in Ireland for 4 months, but nothing would make me give up being a Celtic-American.

I am not a Scot. I am a Scottish-American. A Celtic new-worlder. The DNA is there, but being a Celtic-American certainly has it's differences from being Scottish or Irish. I share a similar history with the Scots, but the culture I was raised in is similar, but really quite different from theirs...and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

[ccga3359]

I honestly don't understand why non-Scot natives need to identify with being Scottish. "It's a Celtic thing" I'm told. I'm from England emigrated to Canada at the tender age of 10 and pretty much identify myself as Canadian. I've never felt the compunction to trace my English roots suffice to say that my surname Harmsworth can be found in the Domesday book so yay I've have lineage back to 1179. My paternal grandmother was Gypsie yet something else I've never identified with, don't think I have that traveler gene. I honestly don't see or feel the need other than curiosity. I do realize that others here feel the opposite, this is just me.

In regards to the lack of history felt on this side of the Atlantic, I have noticed this. The Hudson's Bay Co. has a history that goes back to 1670 which it seems is about when Canadian recorded history started. I recall once in history class learning about history such as this, history only going back 400 years. At the time of leaving England in 1976 they were digging for a housing development in my former neighbourhood when they discovered a Roman burial ground dating back 2000 years. I recall my Canadian classmates shocked at such a long history. North America certainly existed back then but the First Nations peoples never recorded history in written form only in song and dance. It is the fault of the earliest settlers to the latter one's that never concerned themselves to write it down or even to consider it important.

[beloitpiper]

Grant, when you've grown up singing Scottish tunes, listening to bagpipes, and eating haggis and tatties, you being to wonder where it all came from. Why not seek your roots? There is a shared connection that cannot be ignored. Why not embrace it?

[ccga3359]

Grant, when you've grown up singing Scottish tunes, listening to bagpipes, and eating haggis and tatties, you being to wonder where it all came from. Why not seek your roots? There is a shared connection that cannot be ignored. Why not embrace it?

Because to me it's really not that important. I lived England everyday for 10 years, I've found a home in Canada for 34. My children are well aware of their heritage on my side but for them, through me it's the Maple Leaf first and foremost. I'll always love England but that's the past not the present, nor the future. It's decision I made a long time ago when I received my citizenship.

I personaly don't hypehenate my nationality, I'm Canadian of British birth. Admittedly part of that is for political reasons here. English-Canadians (as opposed to French-Canadians) has much to do with division of our nation than heritage. Never let it be said that I'm not fiercly proud of being born in England. One day I hope to take my family there to show them where I'm from.

[Nighthawk]

And in today's crazy world, where major cultural changes happen faster and faster, I think people want something to cling to, that gives them a sense of roots and belonging. Europeans tend to take it for granted; Americans don't have that luxury.

You expressed that perfectly! That's exactly how I see it!

I have to admit I was a little "irked" by this as well.
I would add that my family (as well as most of us to some degree) were part of a very old and ancient piping tradition in Scotland; most if not all major battles/wars; the Clearances; as well as the settling of new lands including the continuation of Scottish/Gaelic traditions.
That's my (our) heritage...period. It was paid for in blood, sweat, tears and death. So, frankly I could give a $h!t what ANYONE thinks about my American a$$ wearing a kilt and playing bagpipes.

And here we have two extremes with me in the middle! One expressed my feeling more eloquently than I; one more vulgar and beligerant! I love it!