Scottish vs. Scots

[ChubRock]

I am who I was born to be. A descendent of Scottish and English adventurers.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I am Scottish... as far as background goes I'm around 1/2 Scots and 1/2 Irish. Like most people I'm unsure of my background more than 3 or 4 generations back - and even then there's missing pieces. So could anyone really call themself indigenous Scots unless they can trace more than half their lineage back to the formation of "The Scots" from the Picts, the Gaels and the Brythons. Even then - there has been a lot of migration to Scotland in the last 1000years - especially the lowlands.
I consider myself both Scottish and a Scot... in most contexts I'm sure a lot of people of first or second generation immigrants would too, but why correct them on this issue if they are proud of being integrated into Scottish society? I certainly wouldnt.

Suppose for the moment you and your wife upped sticks and moved to Ethiopia. Your children are born there. Are you/they Ethiopians? Or are they citizens of Ethiopia, which is very much something else, all together.

[tyger]

-ish

suff.

Of, relating to, or being: Scottish.

Characteristic of: girlish.
Having the usually undesirable qualities of: childish.
Approximately; somewhat: greenish.
Tending toward; preoccupied with: selfish.

ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English, from Old English -isc

[Paul]

Suppose for the moment you and your wife upped sticks and moved to Ethiopia. Your children are born there. Are you/they Ethiopians? Or are they citizens of Ethiopia, which is very much something else, all together.

Well if I did move to any country and my kids were born there they could consider thenselves Ethiopians with a Scottish & Scots background.

It's funny that you said Ethiopia - as I studied it for a short period of time and learned that the background of most of the people is far from indigenous, which is similar to the Scottish position - although Scotland's groups have become less ethnically divided culturally. As far as I'm aware the Amhara are said to have been the most indigenous in Ethiopia and they comprise of around 25% of the population; and even then this would include those with mixed ancestry and "some" Amhara blood. A similar thing could be said for the Picts - who have lived in specific areas and have integrated with other Scots with mixed lineages through time. How many people in Scotland would have more than 50% Pictish ancestry? I'd bet it would be 25% or even much, much less.

[cessna152towser]

Interesting thread. I have always regarded myself as Scottish as I was born in Scotland. All four of my grandparents were born in Scotland, though one was born into an Irish family who had just arrived in Scotland the previous year. His older brothers had been born in Ireland and they all emigrated to Canada in the early years of the twentieth century where their families multiplied with each generation. Meantime the Scottish branches of my family died out, so although I am Scottish and live in Scotland, most of my relatives are Canadians of Irish descent.

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

Those of us unfortunate enough to be born outside of Scotland I like to think of as of Scottish heritage or descent

I do have to say, that the start of the sentence is quite peculiar, and not wishing to turn this into a National pride sytle thread; if I had a choice to where I was born, it would never change.

I see that statement quite regularly on here, and I find it hard to understand...

However, I do class myself as a Kiwi, of "Scottish" descent (which is blatantly a grand excuse to wear the Kilt).

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown
Suppose for the moment you and your wife upped sticks and moved to Ethiopia. Your children are born there. Are you/they Ethiopians? Or are they citizens of Ethiopia, which is very much something else, all together.

this even relates to migration within ones own country, for example I left Invercargill (Southland) when I was 17, moved to Auckland to join the RNZN, and have lived here for nearly 17 years (I did spend a large proportion of that time overseas), but I will never call myself an Aucklander (sorry Brian ;) ) my kids are Aucklanders, because they were born here, but it would be odd if they started supporting my sports teams and claiming that they were Southlanders...
And, no matter where they settle in NZ, they will always be Aucklanders.

Hopefully that is as clear as mud?

[ForresterModern]

Nits picked clean so far.

Scotch refers to only two things, whisky and celophane tape.

Scottish I think is a bit more broad use, and that may depend on which side of the pond from which you hail. It is not uncommon here in the States to describe onesself as being "irish" or "scottish" or "german" or "dutch" when in fact we mean we are to some degree of that heritage or descent, bloodline, when in fact we are americans of "scottish" descent, or Scottish-americans.

Interestingly, in my opinion and experience, I think the word and usage of "scot" is pretty infrequent in the States. While kilted I do not ever remember being asked if I was a "scot", rather always asked if I was scottish, from scotland, or rarely of scottish heritage or descent (what I prefer). But I bet the usage is different in places that were historically part of the british empire.

just my tuppence---excuse me, two cents.

jeff

[kiltedwolfman]

When people ask me about heritage I simply say Canadian. While some of my ancestors came from across the pond they nontheless landed here were fruitfull and multiplied. I was born Canadian and no matter what the ancestral blood is I am first and foremost Canadian. I don't believe in hyphons, whether you moved here or were born here, once you are here for good you are Canadian. My Great great grandfather came here from Stirling and married a Huron woman. This might give me reason for some kind of claim or two, but at the end of the day I am what I am, Canadian and nothing more.

[Lachlan09]

I must admit, I never use the word “Scots”, unless referring to Royal Scots DG’s; Scots Guards; Royal Scots etc. To me “Scots” sounds a bit old-fashioned and I never use it about myself or family or ancestors. In fact of my ancestors, including my father, I would always say Highland or Highland Scottish. It isn’t a conscious decision, the term “Scots” just never really came into my lexicon. I refer to myself as Scottish. If foreigners ask me what nationality I am, I always say Scottish, as that is most natural for me – I would only ever say British as second choice if the person asking didn’t know what Scottish was.

But if they hadn't heard of Scottish or Scotland, I would certainly feel sorry for the poor deluded foreigner .

[Woodsheal]

When people ask me about heritage I simply say Canadian. While some of my ancestors came from across the pond they nontheless landed here were fruitfull and multiplied. I was born Canadian and no matter what the ancestral blood is I am first and foremost Canadian. I don't believe in hyphons, whether you moved here or were born here, once you are here for good you are Canadian. My Great great grandfather came here from Stirling and married a Huron woman. This might give me reason for some kind of claim or two, but at the end of the day I am what I am, Canadian and nothing more.

I can relate. I'm an American "mutt" with immigrant ancestors from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Sardinia. Hmm...perhaps I should say I'm descended from "islanders"...!