Scottish vs. Scots

[MacLowlife]

Can anyone verify when the use of "Scotch" began to be limited to Whisky? In my youth, the term "Scotch Irish" was frequently used and people other than me played HopScotch. And we ate Butterscotch. These days, I hear "Scots-Irish" far more often. There is a Scots Presbyterian church in Charleston, which older books identify as Scotch Presbyterian.

Having said all of that, I am reminded by MOR of the old saying "Just because the cat had kittens in the oven, it doesn't make them biscuits. " Location isn't always everything.

As for nits, it was nit-like nieves that worried Burns.

[MacLowlife]

FROM THE SILICON GLEN blog and pages:


This is a term used to mean various things, but is now considered mildly offensive when referring to people - generally use "Scots" for people and "Scottish" for everything else. Whisky is usually not referred to as "Scotch" - see note on whisky [13.4]

Historically, the word was widely used in Scotland as a adjective meaning the same as "scottish". In fact, it was not until circa 1925 that the Scotch Education Department became the Scottish Education Department.

Burns used the word Scotch

"The sma', droop-rumpled, hunter cattle,
Might aiblins waur'd thee for a brattle;
But sax Scotch miles, thou tried their mettle,
An' gart them whaizle:
Nae whip nor spur, but just a wattle
O' saugh or hazel."
("The Auld Farmer's New Year Morning Salutation To His Auld
Mare, Maggie")

In The Oxford Companion To The English Language, OUP 1992, there is an entry on "Scotch", written by Professor A. J. Aitken, Honorary Professor, University of Edinburgh, formerly editor of "A Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue."

"SCOTCH: A late 16th century contraction of "Scottish", first in Early Modern English then in Older Scots. It ousted "Scottish" as the prevailing form in England. In Scotland, the native form "Scots" predominated until in the 18c Anglicizing vogue "Scotch" became fashionable in both countries.

In the early 19th c., however, some Scottish writers were expressing doubts about it as a supposed innovation and returning to the more traditional "Scottish" and "Scots", while others, such as J. A. H. Murray, editor of the OED, continued to use it.

By the early 20th c., disapproval of "Scotch" by educated Scots was so great that its use was regularly discountenanced by teachers, except for such entrenched phrases as Scotch broth, Scotch mist, Scotch terrier, Scotch tweed, Scotch whisky.

In England and North America, "Scotch" has remained the dominant form into the late 20c, although awareness of middle-class Scottish distaste for it has been spreading. The OED
Supplement, (1982) reported that in deference to Scottish sensibilities the English have been abandoning "Scotch" for "Scottish" and less frequently "Scots", and prefer "the Scots" to "the Scotch" as the name of the people.

Paradoxically, for working-class Scots the common form has long been "Scotch" (sometimes written "Scoatch") and the native form Scots is sometimes regarded as an Anglicized affectation."

The concise OED (publ 1999) states that the use "Scotch" for the people of Scotland is "dated".


MacLowlife adds: BUT WHAT ABOOT SCOTCH EGGS?

[Dall_Piobaire]

Well, home is where the heart is I say!

Both sides of my family are fiercely proud of their heritage. Interestingly enough, when doing genealogical research, connections seem to circle round. I am very proud to be of Scots-Irish descent, and proud of the critical contribution those proud, strong, stalwart people made to America.

[Lachlan09]

Well, if they kept it in their genes, there wouldn't be Scots today !

[Fast Eddie]

Well, if they kept it in their genes, there wouldn't be Scots today !

very clever...

We grew up with the understanding that "Scotch" referred to the malted beverage made exclusively in Scotland. "Scots" was the language that was somewhere between English and Gaelic. "Scottish" was the label for all things made in, or imported from, Scotland (including the inhabitants). We never used "scots-irish" except in reference to things or people from parts of Northern Ireland, or referred to anything or anyone from Scotland as "Scotch" - it was understood to be incorrect and inappropriate for common usage.

This goes back over 40 years in our family, who have been proud of their Scottish ancestors, just as they are proud of their American, English, French, Portuguese, and Native American ancestors... I'm not Scottish, just an American who's comfortable with his ancestry, and delight in all the positive aspects that my assorted cultural connections bring!

[macwilkin]

Chas noted this several weeks ago, but it is certainly germane to this particular thread, that the formation sign of the 15th (Scottish) Division in the First World War was a red wheel "scotch".

T.

[Lachlan09]

Chas noted this several weeks ago, but it is certainly germane to this particular thread, that the formation sign of the 15th (Scottish) Division in the First World War was a red wheel "scotch".

T.

That's right, the circle represented "O", 15th letter of the alphabet and the triangular device in the middle was a “scotch” block, a form of wedge used in industrial applications.

But, Cajun, I dinnae think it was germane, I’m pretty sure it was Scottish.

[macwilkin]

That's right, the circle represented "O", 15th letter of the alphabet and the triangular device in the middle was a “scotch” block, a form of wedge used in industrial applications.

But, Cajun, I dinnae think it was germane, I’m pretty sure it was Scottish.

But the formation sign was a "scotch" block, not a "Scottish" block.

T.

[Lachlan09]

But the formation sign was a "scotch" block, not a "Scottish" block.

T.

I think Scottish Block is what Sir Walter Scott got when he couldn't think what to write !

[Leprechaun 91]

One wonders if this is not a sort of, "Asian / Oriental" argument? People are "Asian," Rugs are "Oriental." Are people Scottish or Scots? Are Sporrans Scots or Scottish. I tend to go with the idea that Scots are the people of the "race or heritage" Scottish are Citizens and objects.