Scottish heraldic flavor

[EagleJCS]

MOR,
I believe what The Deil's Child was referring to when he said "posthumous grant" - and he can correct me if I'm wrong - was the grant of arms to "a Scottish ancestor settled in the United States of America prior to 1783" as referred to here.(www.scotarmigers.net/pdfs/info-leaflet-8.pdf)

That leaflet, and a couple of others on the SSA website, offer information - also provided on Lord Lyon's website here http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/f...OfPetition.pdf - on matriculating a grant of arms for oneself once an ancestor's arms have been determined (either by a grant "for and in memory of" said ancestor, or through research to determine the original grant).

It may be that the current Lord Lyon won't grant arms "for and in memory of" long-deceased ancestors. That would be for him to clarify. If so, the information on the various Scottish Arms/Heritage websites will need to be updated.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

MOR,
I believe what The Deil's Child was referring to when he said "posthumous grant" - and he can correct me if I'm wrong - was the grant of arms to "a Scottish ancestor settled in the United States of America prior to 1783" as referred to here.(www.scotarmigers.net/pdfs/info-leaflet-8.pdf)

That leaflet, and a couple of others on the SSA website, offer information - also provided on Lord Lyon's website here http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/f...OfPetition.pdf - on matriculating a grant of arms for oneself once an ancestor's arms have been determined (either by a grant "for and in memory of" said ancestor, or through research to determine the original grant).

It may be that the current Lord Lyon won't grant arms "for and in memory of" long-deceased ancestors. That would be for him to clarify. If so, the information on the various Scottish Arms/Heritage websites will need to be updated.

We are looking at two different sets of circumstances. In the case of (b) "a deceased Scottish ancestor" there is no time limit as to when that ancestor must have arrived in the USA. This covers the vast majority of people in the USA whose Scottish ancestor would have arrived after American independence. In the case of (c) "a Scottish ancestor who settled in America prior to 1783" this covers those persons with typically Scottish surnames whose ancestors arrived prior to independence. In this instance it can sometimes be virtually impossible to provide the stringent proofs required by Lyon. For that reason many descendants of early Scottish settlers may wish to apply to the Bureau of Heraldry in South Africa.

(Now I have to be perfectly honest here and say that for the life of me I can not figure out any substantive difference between (b) and (c) unless it is to allow Lyon a bit of wiggle room when dealing with some older records in North America; to me, save for the date, both sets of circumstances seem more-or-less identical.)

I stand ready to be corrected on this, but it is my understanding that the phrase "for and in memory of" merely establishes the fact that the letters patent present a memorial of the petitioners ancestors, which establish his right to appear before the Court of the Lord Lyon when suing out arms. As far as I know it is still the practice of the Lord Lyon to grant arms under this clause.