Clan MacEvil

[Semiomniscient]

I dunno.. Mac maybe? Or Mac%@$#!&

Why do you think that MacEvil might not be acceptable?

I imagine that the rule you quoted is intended to keep out tartan names that might be racist, sexist, somehow offensive... Is MacEvil offensive?

I don't think it's offensive. But perhaps a bit silly... but does "silly" mean "inappropriate"? I brought up the question on a different Scottish Attire discussion group about the very same kind of thing asking if a tartan could be named for something absolutely ridiculous like "The Insane Flying Zombie Slayers of Atlantis" tartan. I was told by Matt Newsome, that if it were paid for, it would likely be approved. I didn't like that answer. However, if it were a club, then it might be nice to be able to have a club tartan. "MacEvil" is essentially a close group which identifies with each other as a "clan" or "family". Some people are not so fortunate to have close ties with their biological family and have made stronger non-familial ties with those outside their genetic line. Socially, this should be accepted, and if they desire to have a tartan, then they should... albeit my traditionalist inclinations would wish it was called something other than "MacEvil". :-)

[Chas]

I dunno.. Mac maybe? Or Mac%@$#!&

Why do you think that MacEvil might not be acceptable?

I imagine that the rule you quoted is intended to keep out tartan names that might be racist, sexist, somehow offensive... Is MacEvil offensive?

I am not saying that it is offensive, but it is certainly frivolous. MacEvil would be translated as 'Son of Evil'.

Regards

Chas

[Tobus]

I was told by Matt Newsome, that if it were paid for, it would likely be approved. I didn't like that answer.

I'm curious why you didn't like it. Would you rather that some stuffy and pretentious individual be in charge of deciding which tartans he will allow and which ones don't meet his own personal standards?

On the one hand, I tend to agree that frivolous/silly names and designs tend to cheapen the whole idea of tartan as a meaningful thing. But on the other hand, I wouldn't presume to tell someone they can't have their own original tartan design, regardless of what association they represent, and I'm glad the official registry feels the same.

[Mel Gibson Braveheart voice] Freedom! [/voice]

[GreenDragon]

How does one go about designing a tartan anyway?

[Frank McGrath]

How about this name.



MacWhocares.

After talking to the kilt police, a vote was taken and they are in favor of Rocky doing anything he wants. In fact, the kilt police will raise a glass of Glenfiddich to him whence they assemble again. (This evening). Good on ya' Rocky.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I imagine that the rule you quoted is intended to keep out tartan names that might be racist, sexist, somehow offensive... Is MacEvil offensive?

It's not offensive, but it is a phonetic English spelling of one of the Gaelic versions of the name MacMillan:

MacQwhewyl; MacChewill; MacKevoil; MacEvoil (McEvill, etc.). [THE MACMILLANS AND THEIR SEPTS, by Somerled MacMillan, Glasgow, 1952.]

As far as I know, there is nothing to prevent someone designing a tartan and naming it after an existing clan-- Black MacMillan being the most recent example of a fashion tatrtan being designed, registered, and marketed without the knowledge or approval of a clan chief.

Unlike the instance just cited, I doubt the designers were aware of the name "MacEvil", and I certainly don't think they have any intention of marketing it as a "clan" tartan in the same way the designers of Black MacMillan marketed their tartan as a "Clan MacMillan" tartan.

Still, it does show a certain "lack of care and due diligence" on the part of the registering authority in accepting the names submitted to them by tartan designers.

[CDNSushi]

Still, it does show a certain "lack of care and due diligence" on the part of the registering authority in accepting the names submitted to them by tartan designers.

I'm not trying to be contrary but that, it would seem, is rather arbitrary unless an authority such as the Lord Lyon, for instance, or maybe some branch of the government (seeing that it's a government website) were to deem that tartan names should not be frivolous or maybe follow some set of rules or guidelines.

Barring that, the registering authority is probably just covering their legal tail in reserving the right to disallow "inappropriate" names without further clarification of what that might entail. Until then, everyone's definition of due diligence is bound to vary unless specifically defined.

As for "The Insane Flying Zombie Slayers of Atlantis" tartan, I say why not? There are plenty of corporate tartans... What if I opened up a pizza shop by the above name and wanted a tartan bearing the shop's namesake?

Then again, I don't see a problem with rubber chicken sporrans either...

[Zardoz]

I, for one think it's a fun idea, and I really like the tartan. If Rocky ever makes it avalible in PV I'll likely try to get permission to wear it.

Maybe he can design a McPertinacious tartan for everybody else

[Chas]

Just for a little clarification. Further on in the Scottish Register of Tartans Guidance Document:

The addition of traditional tartan descriptors to a tartan name e.g. 'Hunting Smith', 'Modern Smith', 'Dress Smith' etc. will be accepted as unique names for the purposes of the Register. However, the applicant will be required to offer proof of his/her association with the original tartan and appropriate authority to register further versions of it. Under the terms of the Scottish Register of Tartans Act 2008 Section 7(2)(a), the Keeper must refuse to register a tartan (a) if the applicant's association with the name of the tartan is insufficient or insubstantial, or (b) if the name of the tartan is undesirable i.e. in the view of the Keeper the name is likely to mislead the public as to the true nature of the purposes of the person/body registering it, or is deemed to be frivolous or offensive. It is not possible to register a tartan name which is greater than 200 characters in length.

So if the name is not trying to mislead the public, the members of Clan McEvil must have convinced the Keeper that they really are the 'Sons of Evil'. It seems also that "The Insane Flying Zombie Slayers of Atlantis" is out as well.

Regards

Chas

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm curious why you didn't like it.

Because it implies that the only standard is the gold standard, and that is probably the least desirable standard of all.

Would you rather that some stuffy and pretentious individual be in charge of deciding which tartans he will allow and which ones don't meet his own personal standards?

Yes. Irrespective of whether he was stuffy and pretentious or not, by virtue of the fact that he represents a regulatory authority his decisions should be based on something other than collecting a fee from anyone without due regard to the rights -- latent or active-- of other parties. In other words he should do his job to make sure that the registered design and name to not transgress the rights of others. I don't see how one can really object to that.

On the one hand, I tend to agree that frivolous/silly names and designs tend to cheapen the whole idea of tartan as a meaningful thing. But on the other hand, I wouldn't presume to tell someone they can't have their own original tartan design, regardless of what association they represent, and I'm glad the official registry feels the same.

[Mel Gibson Braveheart voice] Freedom! [/voice]

Here's the downside to failing to adequately regulate tartans. Suppose you designed a tartan, registered it as "Clan McWhatever" and had it woven and launched an advertising campaign to market it. You hope to make a lot of money, and therefore have put a lot of your money on the line developing your "tartan" product. Now suppose that Angus McWhatever, chief of the name and arms, decided he didn't like your tartan, and especially didn't like you using his name to make money. What do you think might happen?

Well, Angus McWhatever of that Ilk could quite simply enjoin you from using his name, or the name of his clan, to market your goods, leaving you with a warehouse full of unsold tartan, and a whole lot of pound notes gone down the swanney on an advertising campaign that will never see the light of day.

I would think that most designers and manufacturers of tartan would rather deal with a stuffy and pretentious individual at the tartan authority office instead of facing a similarly stuffy and pretentious individual sitting on the bench in a court of law, adjudicating on the rights of an individual to prevent his name being used in commerce without his permission.

I'm all in favour of freedom in the marketplace, but I oppose those who would use this freedom as license to defraud others of their rights.