April 16, 1746

[Livingston]

I'll be wearing my Livingston kilt in honor of Donald Livingstone who both survived the battle and managed to bring back the only Scotish banner that was not captured by the Government. That banner was the banner of the Stewarts of Appin. The story can be read here.

[Jock Scot]

I'll be wearing my Livingston kilt in honor of Donald Livingstone who both survived the battle and managed to bring back the only Scotish banner that was not captured by the English. (just easier to put it that way) That banner was the banner of the Stewarts of Appin. The story can be read here.

I know full well what you mean when you discuss the English capturing(or not) assorted banners at Culloden and so do many of us here, but unfortunately it just perpetuates the misinformation which does sometimes generate unnecessary "heat" by the less well informed. It may be easier to "credit" the English for their participation in the battle, but it is much safer and accurate, to say Government, or, British. Please.

[Sir William]

Don't forget that many more Scots fought on the side of the Government than fought for BPC at Culloden. Even in the Highlands BPC was not universally popular. I shall remember the brave men, of both sides, who fought in that battle.

No dispute there, Jock! However, since I'm in a living history group of Appin Stewarts, I'd feel strange being seen "on the other side." Though most of my Scottish ancestors come from families that supported the Government, so maybe I should switch sides...

(I should note that not having lived in that period, I have no particular leanings one way or the other regarding the Hanover King or the King o'er the Water.)

That said, I'm more likely to wear my Government Sett to honor all Scots who wore it before and after the '45. Besides, I'm going to be at a military history conference and what could be more appropriate than a military tartan?

[LANCER1562]

I plan to wear a kilt on Friday but I'm torn between my SWK Balck Stewart and my SWK Black Watch (Government?). Any suggestions/recommendations?

Does anyone know the position the Border clans took in that dispute? Being a Kerr (Borders) I would be interested in any information. Also my Living History group recreates the battles that took place at Prestonpans(sp?) and Killiecranikie.

[BoldHighlander]

No dispute there, Jock! However, since I'm in a living history group of Appin Stewarts, I'd feel strange being seen "on the other side." Though most of my Scottish ancestors come from families that supported the Government, so maybe I should switch sides...

(I should note that not having lived in that period, I have no particular leanings one way or the other regarding the Hanover King or the King o'er the Water.)

Funny you should mention this Sir William, for earlier today I was thinking about my own kin & connections to a few Highland clans, half of whom supported the Jacobites & the other half that supported the House of Hanover....it puts me in that position of which side do I support?

Thus, while my chosen clan affiliation is with a clan (Macdonnell of Keppoch) that was very staunch in its Jacobite leanings, I choose to remember & honour my ancestors from both sides who lived (& died) in those times as best as they could.

Cheers!

[kennethrmc]

I'll be wearing my MacIntosh tartan. Though the cause is long dead, the clan were clearly Jacobite supporters; BPC was hidden briefly at Moy Hall and there's a marker to the MacIntosh dead at Culloden. So, to honor my kinfolk's sacrifice (without disparaging anyone on the other side of the conflict) the clan colors seem appropriate for the day.

[Micric]

Lancer/Robert,

I think the folk of the borders stayed out of it when possible, or took the Government side. Many just went about their daily lives, though probably with some interest in the happenings.
I didn't use the word "clans" for the border folk, as there wasn't really such a thing at the time, not in the Highland clan sense.

I don't think we need to pick sides to support, it's all over and both sides had brave men;
To stand and face grape and round- shot took guts, and to face a Highland charge without running took guts!...lets remember and lift a glass to that :-)

[MacBean]

I'll be wearing my MacIntosh tartan. Though the cause is long dead, the clan were clearly Jacobite supporters; BPC was hidden briefly at Moy Hall and there's a marker to the MacIntosh dead at Culloden. ...

I think that is not completely the case, or at least, claims to the contrary are possible. The MacKintosh Chief fought on the Hanoverian side, and I believe (a bit of trouble verifying this bit) his wife, Lady Ann, raised Clan Chattan in his support. Later she raised a regiment of Clan Chattan on the Stuart (Jacobite) side which was at the forefront of the charge at Drumossie Moor, appears to have broken through the opposing lines and died in great numbers. I do not know whether the Chief was at the battle of Culloden itself or not though; perhaps ThistleDown can fill in the details?

[Sir William]

Lancer/Robert,

I think the folk of the borders stayed out of it when possible, or took the Government side. Many just went about their daily lives, though probably with some interest in the happenings.
I didn't use the word "clans" for the border folk, as there wasn't really such a thing at the time, not in the Highland clan sense.

I don't think we need to pick sides to support, it's all over and both sides had brave men;
To stand and face grape and round- shot took guts, and to face a Highland charge without running took guts!...lets remember and lift a glass to that :-)

I agree that most Border families probably sided with the Government, either because they didn't want a Catholic Stewart on the Scottish throne or because of animosity toward Highlanders. Though there were a fair number of lowlanders on both sides.

I also don't like to use the word "clan" with the Border families, though I note that the Elliots now call themselves a clan, wear tartan, and even the Highlander's kilt!

When I visited Culloden this last summer, I walked both the Jacobite and Government lines and thought about what it must have been like from each respective position. Like I said, I take no particular stand with either side (despite doing a Jacobite living history program), so I honor the soldiers (and particularly the Scots) on both sides that day. I suspect most of them would have preferred being somewhere else, but like all soldiers they followed orders, whether from their officers or clan leaders. It took courage to make a charge into cannons and massed muskets, just as it took courage to stand and face a Highland charge. A toast, or two, to them all!

[Redshank]

it's appropriate to remember 16th April 1746, and in my view commendable to so, the actual battle fought on Drumossie Moor, Culloden is said to have lasted no more than 1 hour, Bonnie Prince Charlie and the Highland army of a poorly led Jacobites, tired and weary fought bravely for a just and rightfull cause despite the fact that they where outnumbered 3 to 1 by the Government troops under Cumberlands command.
But you must also remember the bloody slaughter that continued after the battle for days, weeks, and many months, when the Butchers men roamed the highland slaughtering without mercy anyone suspected of being a jacobite sympathizer.
So remember April 16th 1746 not just for the battle, or for the slaughter, rape and pillage that followed, but as the beginning of the end of a way of life in the Highlands of Scotland that would be lost forever.