formal evening dress: vest or no?

[MacLowlife]

Thanks, MoR,

I am / was among those interested to hear about the Broad Riband, including civilian Black Tie.

I am a member of an organization that bestows a medallion (on a neck ribbon) on its past presidents, but has no badge of office for the current president. I had thought that a sash in the same color, not unlike the Order of the Arrow, might be a good insignia for the office, but got no particular enthusiasm. We may end up with a chain, like a Lord Mayor's, or some kind of staff, like a bishop's crozier. Or we may stick with the status quo- zip. The president appears only once or twice in full dress during his year of office, so it may be simplest to remain unencumbered. Perhaps a live badger on a leash...

[OC Richard]

This thread has been very interesting, as I see that amongst Highland men it's very common to wear an Evening jacket with no waistcoat, with a waistbelt only. I didn't realise how common that was, because the places selling Evening jackets always sell them with waistcoats.

Yes I know wearing a cummerbund with a kilt isn't in line with traditional Highland Dress, but my motive was to match in with the wedding as well as I could while kilted.

[Jock Scot]

This thread has been very interesting, as I see that amongst Highland men it's very common to wear an Evening jacket with no waistcoat, with a waistbelt only. I didn't realise how common that was, because the places selling Evening jackets always sell them with waistcoats.

Yes I know wearing a cummerbund with a kilt isn't in line with traditional Highland Dress, but my motive was to match in with the wedding as well as I could while kilted.

I am not trying to be obtuse, or contentious, I am just trying to understand, but why are you trying to "...match in with the wedding..."? You are already standing out from the crowd, how is a cummerbund, or any other form of "camouflage", going to tone down your appearance? Why should you even want to match any one? None of the wedding guests will want to "match" you, surely? They have their own wedding attire that is probably an entirely different style altogether.

I fully accept that what we wear is entirely a choice that we all have and I am not for one second criticising what you are wearing.

[macwilkin]

Thanks, MoR,

I am / was among those interested to hear about the Broad Riband, including civilian Black Tie.

I am a member of an organization that bestows a medallion (on a neck ribbon) on its past presidents, but has no badge of office for the current president. I had thought that a sash in the same color, not unlike the Order of the Arrow, might be a good insignia for the office, but got no particular enthusiasm. We may end up with a chain, like a Lord Mayor's, or some kind of staff, like a bishop's crozier. Or we may stick with the status quo- zip. The president appears only once or twice in full dress during his year of office, so it may be simplest to remain unencumbered. Perhaps a live badger on a leash...

I have always admired the regalia of the St. Andrew's Society of St. John, New Brunswick, the second oldest Scottish society in Canada (The North British Society of Halifax being the first):

http://sassj.ca/wp/officers/

A number of hereditary societies in the US have very nice regalia; Bailey Banks and Biddle produce ours in the Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the USA, and our rosettes come from Dexter Rosettes:

http://www.dexterrosettes.com/

T.

[AFS1970]

Oddly enough at my wedding much effort went into matching my kilt. The bridesmaids dresses and the ties & cummerbunds worn by the groomsmen were picked as they were a green that sort of went with my kilt. I even wore that bow tie, instead of my usual black.

No effort was made to match the hired piper, who was in his police uniform. But he was only there for the ceremony, not the reception. Some other family members were in tuxes also (I don't really get why) but they did not wear the green that the wedding party did.

I can see the cummerbund with the kilt as being something that breaks up the line, much like a belt does, but I don't like the way most of them are a satin like cloth and most kilts are not nearly as shiny. I think they would contrast each other too much in that regard. I did kind of like the cravat look, but to wear it properly requires to high a vest, and as such throws off the look.

[davidlpope]

Some other family members were in tuxes also (I don't really get why) but they did not wear the green that the wedding party did.

At what time was your wedding held? If after 6pm, then the correct attire for all guests is black tie.

Cordially,

David

[AFS1970]

No, it was a mid day wedding and the entire guest list was not in black tie, just a few members of my wife's family.

I have been to two weddings were the entire thing was black tie, and I have to say, there are apparently less rules with modern tuxedos than there are with kilts. The variety I saw at one, which even included no tie at all, and what can best be described as a cow pattern vest, really stretched the limits of creativity.

[Brian K]

No, it was a mid day wedding and the entire guest list was not in black tie, just a few members of my wife's family.

I have been to two weddings were the entire thing was black tie, and I have to say, there are apparently less rules with modern tuxedos than there are with kilts. The variety I saw at one, which even included no tie at all, and what can best be described as a cow pattern vest, really stretched the limits of creativity.

Actually, I believe there are "rules." Most people these days are simply unaware or just don't care.

I am the assistant manager of a small grocery store so most of my coworkers are teenagers. The night of the prom most of them attending stop in so those of us who are working can see them in their finery. Some of them come close to the elegance of traditional black and white for the gentlemen, but some of them look like they're auditioning for the circus, with most falling somewhere in the broad middle. When I try to explain the finer points of formal dress they think I'm the one who's daft. (I only discuss this stuff when they first start talking about what they're going to wear. I'd never dream of criticizing how they look the night of the event - not only would it be too late, but why would I want to run the risk of upsetting them when they are on their way to have fun?)

The hire shops have done for "Saxon" formal wear what they've done for Highland wear, I fear. At least the kids that work for me end up in a crowd of people who don't know any better so they're not self-conscious about it and end up having a great time.

Regards,

Brian

[English Bloke]

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm sure it's absolutely correct but I have never been to a wedding where all male guests have worn black tie post 18:00. I must mix in the wrong circles.

I'm also thinking that the tweed jacket would be acceptable at a wedding as it would do for the day and the night do. Depends who's wedding it is I suppose.

Jordon.
Re: removing your jacket. As MoR explained it isn't the Gentlemanly thing to do.

I have an example if you'll bear with me. When I was a young Sergeant and new to the Mess and it's etiquette, I attended a Christmas Ball. Due to the constraints of floor space in the building, it had extended onto the lawns and under canvas. A fellow mess member's wife was finding it a bit chilly to be essentially, outside without her coat on so her husband proffered his mess jacket for her to place around her shoulders. Very chivalrous.

After the RSM had finished waving at him, he'd landed himself 15 extra duties... (that's day on, day off for a month by the way). On Monday morning he reported to the Top Soldier to request a reprieve as he belived he had only done the gentlemanly thing for the comfort of a guest to the Mess. He left that discussion with his 15 increased to 30 for having the audacity to question the Presiding Member's authority.

These sort of incentives encourage you to keep your jacket on even if you have melted into a pool of salty water on the floor. It becomes like second nature NOT to remove it. Incidentally, the only time I've seen more extras handed out at a dinner was to a PT Corps Sergeant who did the 'Dance of the Flaming Arseholes' across the table tops of his leg. He got 180 duties... (day on, day off for a year!) but then again he did deserve it, even if it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

[auld argonian]

Jack Donaghy sez it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P7yWnAAd0


Best

AA