Time for a New York State tartan?

[macwilkin]

One thing to point out: designing a tartan is one thing, let alone getting official recognition from the legislature, but you also want it to be adopted by individuals -- before approaching any state legislator, I would be approaching the major Scottish, Caledonian and St. Andrew's Societies in New York state asking for their endorsement of the tartan.

You might wish to consider how the designer of the Iowa state tartan went about it:

http://haggis-iowa.com/iowa_tartans.html

Scroll down for a brief history of the process they went through.

T.

[Brian K]

One thing to point out: designing a tartan is one thing, let alone getting official recognition from the legislature, but you also want it to be adopted by individuals -- before approaching any state legislator, I would be approaching the major Scottish, Caledonian and St. Andrew's Societies in New York state asking for their endorsement of the tartan.

You might wish to consider how the designer of the Iowa state tartan went about it:

http://haggis-iowa.com/iowa_tartans.html

Scroll down for a brief history of the process they went through.

T.

I agree, Todd. I haven't read the article yet - I skimmed it once before - but there's no sense in going to the legislature and getting something approved if no one else is interested. Others in this thread have suggested the same route of starting with local Scottish organizations of various stripes and I think it's a good one.

We're a pretty diverse group here and I have confidence in our ability to come up with a design with broad appeal. Getting the support of a number of groups, and the pre-approval publicity it could generate will be important in gaining popularity of tartan for the Empire State.

Regards,

Brian

PS - this is not the article I remember. It seems there was a longer one somewhere, but I appreciate the link. I like the idea of the approval happening on Tartan Day. The next one is about 11 months away. I wonder if we can manage it?

[Brian K]

I took a moment to put together what i think we're moving towards in the Heart of New York series - labeled one 1aaa to keep things stright.

Here 'tis:



This design returns us to the Denim Blue and incorporates beerbecue's suggestion of Cherry Red instead of Old Red.

Comments?

[Bob C]

I thought the old red looked better but would agree to this.

I'm afraid, if we take Todd's advice and look for consent from all the Scottish societies in the state, it will get bogged down and never, ever happen. Let's be bold and take leadership. Sometimes, you get something for no better reason than you got there first. If it becomes official, others will jump on board.

[thescot]

I'm wondering: would adoption of a state tartan require actual legislation passing both houses (Assembly and Senate), or would a simple resolution passing in one house suffice?
In either case, when the time comes I'll gladly get in touch with my state senator Tom Libous regarding this. We have a passing acquaintance, he's quite senior and wields some clout (though not as much as when his party was in the majority!)....

Not from New York, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but the original design on your first post is really nice.

You might be able to get the governor to issue a proclamation. That way only one person has to be persuaded. Or . . .

Usually, if you can get the right person in each house to sponsor the thing, a simple resolution is not too hard to come by. At least when it comes to something innocuous like a state tartan. And getting several Scottish societies to join in the request wil help.

But then, we are talking about politicians.

[macwilkin]

I thought the old red looked better but would agree to this.

I'm afraid, if we take Todd's advice and look for consent from all the Scottish societies in the state, it will get bogged down and never, ever happen. Let's be bold and take leadership. Sometimes, you get something for no better reason than you got there first. If it becomes official, others will jump on board.

I'm sorry, but it would be a mistake to totally ignore the Scottish-American community. If not, you'll have your tartan, but will it be left to relative obscurity because you chose to ignore the very people who should embrace it. And your statement that it will "never, ever happen" is just plain wrong, because it has happened in Iowa, Minnesota, Louisiana and other states where tartans have been adopted officially.

If you'll read the article I posted Bob, you'll note that the Iowa tartan was not designed by consensus; Mark Osweiler, the designer of both the Iowa and Minnesota tartans, took the initiative and leadership and produced a number of designs before approaching the various Scottish organizations to support the cause. The best way to approach it is to ask one of the local groups to officially sponsor the effort, and then use them to appeal to kindred societies. Again, witness the example of Iowa and Minnesota.

Remember, you'll need constituents to contact their state legislators to lobby for them to support the effort, especially in this era when many people will see this as a waste of the assembly's time, given the current economic crisis.

Ulitmately, you want a tartan people support and wear. And if you ignore the Scottish-American community all together, then what's the point?

You don't have to give the societies total power, but they may not support such an effort if your actions appear unilateral.

T.

[macwilkin]

One further point to make: two or three people trying to introduce this into the legislature will probably not get anywhere, but having the backing of the Scottish-American community will give the effort major support. Again, you don't have to involve them in the actual design, but approach them and say, "This tartan symbolizes the contributions of Scots to New York and their descendants efforts today -- will you help us?"

T.

[Woodsheal]

I took a moment to put together what i think we're moving towards in the Heart of New York series - labeled one 1aaa to keep things stright.

Here 'tis:



This design returns us to the Denim Blue and incorporates beerbecue's suggestion of Cherry Red instead of Old Red.

Comments?

Before looking closely at the design, an initial quick glance at this tartan says "Leatherneck!" Pretty much the same colors involved, no...?

[Bob C]

I'm sorry, but it would be a mistake to totally ignore the Scottish-American community. If not, you'll have your tartan, but will it be left to relative obscurity because you chose to ignore the very people who should embrace it. And your statement that it will "never, ever happen" is just plain wrong, because it has happened in Iowa, Minnesota, Louisiana and other states where tartans have been adopted officially.

If you'll read the article I posted Bob, you'll note that the Iowa tartan was not designed by consensus; Mark Osweiler, the designer of both the Iowa and Minnesota tartans, took the initiative and leadership and produced a number of designs before approaching the various Scottish organizations to support the cause. The best way to approach it is to ask one of the local groups to officially sponsor the effort, and then use them to appeal to kindred societies. Again, witness the example of Iowa and Minnesota.

Remember, you'll need constituents to contact their state legislators to lobby for them to support the effort, especially in this era when many people will see this as a waste of the assembly's time, given the current economic crisis.

Ulitmately, you want a tartan people support and wear. And if you ignore the Scottish-American community all together, then what's the point?

You don't have to give the societies total power, but they may not support such an effort if your actions appear unilateral.

T.

This argument holds NO water. How many Campbells or Stewarts or MacKenzies or anyone else had a hand in picking their tartans? How many wear them?

The "too many cooks" adage is very, very true.

[macwilkin]

This argument holds NO water. How many Campbells or Stewarts or MacKenzies or anyone else had a hand in picking their tartans? How many wear them?

The "too many cooks" adage is very, very true.

Ah, but the examples you chose are readily available and very popular. In contrast, very few state tartans are. So therefore, my argument holds enough water to float a battleship. Look how many individual tartans are left in relative obscurity in the Tartan registers.

Besides, you are dismissing what I'm saying without understanding my point: I'm not saying Brian should give up the design process, only to seek support in helping promote it. Again, what's the point of designing a tartan to honour Scottish-American heritage in NY state without getting Scottish-American heritage organizations involved?

T.