Time for a New York State tartan?

**AFS1970** · 4th May 10, 03:18 PM

It was the design process and not the sales pitch. Interesting in that after reading Matt's article, so o f the issues that I was told about appear to be misconceptions at best. I would have to say, looking at it now, the best reason not to wear my state's tartan is the asymmetry. The closest we have to a state kilted unit is the State Police Pipe Band, and they do not wear the Connecticut tartan. Truth be told, I have never seen a kilt in it.

My remarks on color meaning was based on the previous posts, where folks had talked about what colors to have in the NY design. I had not realized that no meaning was attached to them originally. I actually feel better about the description of the CT colors that was posted here, because I had thought that it was simpl the colors of our state flag, and what is red there was purple. Green & Purple are very minor colors int he state flag and would normally go unnoticed.

Another thought, if there are going to be meanings to the colors, get the travel & tourism board involved. They love to talk about what the state means to both residents and tourists and might be helpful in the sales process both to the organizations and the legislature.

**Amble** · 4th May 10, 07:40 PM

Regarding the State of Connecticut tartan, I agree with Brian that it is not a great design, but you know what? The colours of the design are actually quite nice (Balmoral blue, scarlet, green, white, grey and yellow). I took the liberty of changing it to a symmetrical design which is an improvement I think. (What do you think?)

I have no idea why an asymmetrical design was chosen and I wonder if anyone can shed some light on that. Please click on the following to see the "symmetrical" version of "Amended State of Connecticut" that I came up with:

http://www.scotweb.co.uk/tartandesign/details/19077

If no one really likes or wears the asymmetrical officially-registered tartan, why not change it? It is my understanding that it can be amended by the Scottish Register for a relatively small fee. Why don't you "Nutmeggers" do that sometime and have a design that you can be proud of and wear????
Kindest regards,
***Amble*****
(with great optimism of a "New York" tartan being created - it will be worth it)

**Brian K** · 4th May 10, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by AFS1970

It was the design process and not the sales pitch. Interesting in that after reading Matt's article, so o f the issues that I was told about appear to be misconceptions at best. I would have to say, looking at it now, the best reason not to wear my state's tartan is the asymmetry. The closest we have to a state kilted unit is the State Police Pipe Band, and they do not wear the Connecticut tartan. Truth be told, I have never seen a kilt in it.

My remarks on color meaning was based on the previous posts, where folks had talked about what colors to have in the NY design. I had not realized that no meaning was attached to them originally. I actually feel better about the description of the CT colors that was posted here, because I had thought that it was simpl the colors of our state flag, and what is red there was purple. Green & Purple are very minor colors int he state flag and would normally go unnoticed.

Another thought, if there are going to be meanings to the colors, get the travel & tourism board involved. They love to talk about what the state means to both residents and tourists and might be helpful in the sales process both to the organizations and the legislature.

Thanks for the clarification, AFS. When you said there were somethings you remembered unclearly I thought you might have meant the reasons for opposing the tartan. Just for the record, not all asymmetrical tartans are bad ones, but it's one of the reasons the Connecticut is one I don't like. Once in a while you'll see an asymmetrical tartan that doesn't appear so until you study it and then it's like a nice surprise. Like finding an Easter egg. Of course, if it's woven double width it can still cause a kilt maker some problems.

The fact that you've never seen a kilt in the CT tartan is an object lesson in why we need to get as much support as possible.

Regards,

Brian

**Brian K** · 6th May 10, 05:34 AM

OK, it seems we've made some progress here, but I'd like to offer one more option for your consideration. I forget who it was, but one or two members thought it would be nice to work in a gold stripe as blue and gold are the official state colors. I went back to my original design and tinkered with it and I came up with something I liked, but Amble had beaten me to the punch and I liked her design as well so I didn't bother posting it.

I kind of ignored it for a few days and took another look at it yesterday and decided I liked it even more than I did at first. I hesitated to post it here and start things up again, but I shared it with Brian (Woodsheal), who actually inspired this project, and Amble, who has been very helpful and supportive with it. They both told me they liked it and encouraged me to offer it as another alternative.

You'll notice the structure is nearly the same as the original but it it a bit less busy or fussy. The green and pine needle are still there to represent the fields, mountains and forests of our state. The blue still represents the lakes and rivers we are so fond of and the red (actually American rust) and gold work together to bring to mind our beloved maple trees. Brian pointed out, rightly, I think, that separating the red and the gold is a good idea. They stand better on their own than close together. I think there are other reasons to like this design also, but I think that's enough for now.

Sometime in the next few days - time for the dust to settle, so to speak - I'll start a new thread with a poll so decision can be made about which tartan to go with. I still like the idea of a "regular" and a hunting tartan being approved, but that idea never gained any traction and that's fine.

If you know anyone from New York who may not have seen this thread please pass the word. I think we need to get as much support as possible. 6 months from now we want to see some real progress and that's only going to happen if people get involved. I work six nights a week and I don't drive (I know, I'm an oddball

) so I can't do it myself, even if it consumes all my non-work time.

OK. let's drum up some support and I'll let everyone know about the poll thread when I set it up.

Thanks for all the input,

Brian

**thescot** · 6th May 10, 05:51 AM

Brain I think that looks good.

i still like the first one best, but this is something anyone would like to wear.

I don't now about all that hills and trees and rivers stuff, but the read and gold make me think of the USMC.

**Woodsheal** · 6th May 10, 06:00 AM

I REALLY like this latest design! I think the vote should be between this one (call it BK2), HONY1aaa, and the very first one (BK1).

Or, BK1 could be set aside as the "NY Hunting Tartan" if we want to run with that concept (though it might confuse legislators and other folks who don't understand the various permutations of tartan!)....

**brower247** · 6th May 10, 07:37 AM

Coming from a "newbie" kilter,non-Scot, but life long New Yorker, I really like the original design the most. It is one that I would certainly wear, sometimes less is more.

**Brian K** · 6th May 10, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by brower247

Coming from a "newbie" kilter,non-Scot, but life long New Yorker, I really like the original design the most. It is one that I would certainly wear, sometimes less is more.

Thanks, Brower, I appreciate the compliment. It's nice to hear someone say they'd like to wear something I designed.

Ideally, I'd like to have what Woodsheal has labeled BK2 as the regular/standard tartan with BK1 as the hunting variant. Perhaps that will be one of the polling questions. They are similar enough in structure that I think it would be a nice way of giving potential wearers a real option instead of having to "settle," yet both tartans would be clearly identifiable as NEW YORK.

Regards,

Brian

**Brian K** · 6th May 10, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by thescot

Brain I think that looks good.

i still like the first one best, but this is something anyone would like to wear.

I don't now about all that hills and trees and rivers stuff, but the read and gold make me think of the USMC.

Thanks, Jim. I value your opinion and accept the compliment. Even if it's never approved you could still have Scotweb weave some cloth and have a kilt made in the first one. I'd be flattered to have a friend and brother wear something I designed, even if it's as an unregistered fashion tartan.

Regards,

Brian

**Brian K** · 6th May 10, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

I REALLY like this latest design! I think the vote should be between this one (call it BK2), HONY1aaa, and the very first one (BK1).

Or, BK1 could be set aside as the "NY Hunting Tartan" if we want to run with that concept (though it might confuse legislators and other folks who don't understand the various permutations of tartan!)....

Brian,

I definitely understand your concern about the uneducated (as far as tartan is concerned), but I think that would simply mean that education would have to be an integral part of our pitch to both the Scottish organizations and the legislators we approach. Certainly we could show that Iowa and Arkansas have two tartans, and since they each did it differently it would also show there's no hard and fast rule about how you approach the multiple tartan idea.

Thanks for your help, my friend,

Brian