Kilted Golfer DENIED Play at Royal Troon because of the kilt

[wildrover]

To be honest, I wouldn't bother holding my breath if I were you.

They're a business with a snooty reputation, and you're one guy from out of town...so, they're probably saying "who cares?" and moving along. The likelihood of anyone doing anything similar to what you did, even in Scotland, is low enough to be a non-issue.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that's the beauty of multiple levels of management, detached decision-making, and representative authority...it provides ways to ignore people, and at worst, to disavow any responsibility for a poor decision.

If you're serious about rubbing their nose it in, do so. Otherwise, let it go. They probably have, except for the caddymaster, who is probably still laughing at some guy from America who had the audacity to wear a kilt in Scotland.

Wait a year and go back.

-Sean

[MacBean]

Sounds like a poor business decision. This thread already has nearly 3,000 views. You'd have to PAY for advertising like that!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Sounds like a poor business decision. This thread already has nearly 3,000 views. You'd have to PAY for advertising like that!

True enough, but private clubs aren't businesses in the usual sense of the word. Membership is usually by presentation, not application. Many clubs require that new members be proposed by at least two members in good standing, and that the proposal be seconded by two or more members. The proposal is then reviewed by the membership committee who interview the proposer(s), and then put it to the members as to whether or not the proposed new member should be accepted into the club. Yes, it is very much an old boy's network, closed shop sort of a thing, but really not that different than trying to become a member of the Longshoreman's Union in New York when you get right down to it.

In reality, I think WildRover has nailed it as far as the attitude of the Royal Troon goes.

[davidlpope]

Who knows, maybe the guy was an import from somewhere else in The Empire, and forgot he was in Scotland. I can think of no possible explanation, and it would be hilarious to see the "straightening out" session between the members and this middle-management guy who soiled your cheerios.

Do you really think so?

Perhaps I'm the pessimist here, but the fact that this incident played out the way it did makes me believe:

1. Members of the club don't regularly play golf while wearing the kilt.
2. Members of the club don't consider the kilt appropriate golf-playing attire.
3. Members are the club are more likely to share a quiet chuckle over the "Yank who showed up wearing a kilt" than "straighten out" one of their own.

I guess I'd be interested to know how many kilted golfing Scots Jeff has run across during his visit...

Cordially,

David

[Bugbear]

Post deleted.

[ronstew]

MOR is right about the time frame for an apology. A proper written apology is sent by mail with much formality. The secretary would not be able to apologise without authorisation, and that would probably require some sort of board meeting. A rushed, emailed apology is not formal.

My take: The rules say no shorts. The rules do not say no kilts. The rules do not say trousers are required. The rules do not say no leg skin showing. Jeff was within the letter of the rules. The spirit of the rule seems to be to avoid overly casual attire, and Jeff was clearly not overly casual.

I am assuming that Jeff had to pay for his round. In that case, the facts that the club is private, exclusive and snooty are irrelevant. It refused service to a paying customer for a reason that is not mentioned in its published rules. That's bad business, and begs for repercussions.

If Jeff was a guest of the club, the club violated hospitality conventions.

That said, the club is probably within its rights to have a dress code and to interpret it as it chooses. And it may be that its members want to maintain an image of hardnosed snobbery.

It is impossible to foresee every possible situation. Therefore the caddymaster needs freedom to make rulings on the field. And therefore the caddymaster must exercise wisdom in unforeseen situations. I think that wisdom was lacking here, but wisdom is rare. And I am doubt that the caddymaster has been directed to be wise - I suspect that he has been directed to be inflexible.

I hope that you get an apology, Jeff. But be patient.

[Lallans]

One would normally assume a certain gentlemanly responsibility towards guests, but if the old Edwardian standards of conduct blindly apply at this club then nothing further will be heard. But the thing is, the Old Edwardians who set those standards would not have accepted paying guests, so to use those same standards towards a 21st century guest as at present would not be commensurate with the gentle attributes the club would think they were applying. All that said, I fear the latest doubtful posters will be proven correct, just hoping otherwise. I mean, this is Scotland.

[wildrover]

Do you really think so?

In one sense, yes...but, as Canuck put it..."this is Scotland."

I think you missed my latest reply.

-Sean

[ForresterModern]

Several issues to respond to, so one at a time:

First, Rover, I am not holding my breath, but also not going to sit by and let time pass, as passivity is a mark of accession to the3 existing rule. I will push this until I either recieve a full and sincere apology or a statement of fact and standards from the club to the contrary of my dress. In the absence of the former I will progress unlong the lines of utilizing those resources availabile to me to avail my position and situation to the public, because;

Althought these clubs (Troon and Muirfield in particular) do function along the "old boys" network rules (going even so far as to allow women to play only on certain days and to only allow women to enter certain portions of the club (I do NOT mean the mens locker room), the secretary does have the power to respond to a complaint promptly (even if only to state that the issue will be discussed at the next general membership meeting-----afterall the caddiemaster was able to make an independent decision without oversight), if he/she is present at the time, and if not then as previously stated I will avail myself to the mails and then the media. Eventually there will be a response to one of the avenues in some fashion or other. Or possibly not---maybe I am just a fly on the horse's **** that will be shoed away by a flick of the tail. We shall see.

It is not a matter of what the members of the club play in, it is a matter of what the members of the club have specifically restricted both members and guests to play in or more specifically to NOT play in (I wonder what their ruling might be to some of african heritage wishing to play in a dashiki, or a hindu wishing to play in homespun loincloth (would they honestly have kept Ghandi off the course?), and the kilt is in no way excluded by the published rules.

Lastly, in order to have a "private" club qualify to be used as a venue for the British Open (or just "the Open" as described here in the UK), they must open their doors to a certain number of public guests per year, hence one of the reasons that they allow tourists like myself to play there for a significant fee. The other reason is that our fees go a long way to supporting the financial well-being of the club itself, and the lack of tourists playing and paying would not only limit the overall financial status of the club but also risk their standing as a course on the "Open" rota, the rotation of courses that can be eligible to hold the "Open". So they have plenty of reason to be nice to guests and accommodating wherever possible.

As stated before, probably the snootiest of all Scots private golf clubs that have a world class course that is in the rota is generally accepted to be Muirfield, but they welcomed me with open arms, even asking to take pictures with me kilted on their course. And when I discussed my event with several members of the general membership at Troon immediately after completing my "trousered" round at Troon none of them had any issue with my playing in a kilt, and several commended me for honoring my (albeit 13 generations removed) distant scottish heritage by doing so, all saying that they could NOT imagine their club denying me play for simply being kilted. No they do not generally play kilted themselves, but at least one stated that he was now considering doing so himself after our discussion.

Other than the denial of playing in the kilt, and the rather brusk and almost insolent attitude to which I was subjected when I inquired with the caddiemaster after the round was completed, I feel it is mofre than reasonable to address this issue with the club management to its fullest extent, and if the "no kilt" policy is indeed their position, then the world needs to know about it, more than just them changing their posted rules of acceptable golfing attire.

And last to cousin Canuck, if this is the standard of "Scotland" that an American or other non-scots guest can honestly expect, it has not been repeated at similar facilities such as Turnberry, Muirfield, Carnoustie, St Andrews (both new and old courses, as well as the private Dukes course). Last round at Kingsbarns tomorrow and I have been told to NOT expect any issues with the kilt there. Must have been 50 people standing around the 18th fairway and green today when we were coming in taking pictures, and I am sure many of them snapped at least one of me playing kilted.

Home on Sunday.

This is by no means over. Keep your eyes on this page.

Thanks for all your input, pro and con. I value all opinions, but still live my life by what seem to be reasonable and realistic and important principles, by which I will stand until I am proven wrong or learn otherwise.

Jeff

[Slag101]

True enough, but private clubs aren't businesses in the usual sense of the word. Membership is usually by presentation, not application. Many clubs require that new members be proposed by at least two members in good standing, and that the proposal be seconded by two or more members. The proposal is then reviewed by the membership committee who interview the proposer(s), and then put it to the members as to whether or not the proposed new member should be accepted into the club. Yes, it is very much an old boy's network, closed shop sort of a thing, but really not that different than trying to become a member of the Longshoreman's Union in New York when you get right down to it.

In reality, I think WildRover has nailed it as far as the attitude of the Royal Troon goes.

Makes me want to break out the plaid pants, and the golf bag with AM/FM radio. It is now my goal to go there dressed like Mr. Dangerfield in Caddy shack, get out to the middle of the green and shout, "HEY, EVERYBODY'S GONNA GET L**D!"
I would go to that course just to make a scene, even though I feel golf is beneath my social status, unless it involves shooting the ball through a giant dinosaur, or the moving blades of a windmill.