Random advice about a random matter needed

[CDNSushi]

Riverkilt: Fantastic. Thank you!!!

Jock Scott & Thistledown: While I may agree with you in principle, the practicality of taking such a stance is not quite so straightforward. First of all, we live in a very closed, isolated ex-pat community... One must always think and act diplomatically so as not only to avoid burning bridges, but also to not get tagged with a reputation that would hurt you in such a closed environment.

Secondly, most of my friends would not openly and plainly do something to disrespect me. It's not like they wake up in the morning and say to themselves, "Alrighty then. Today I'm going to p*** off Jim Dunlop," and cross it off their "to do" list... People in general forget themselves and don't consider others in their decisions. If I follow the line of reasoning that you're presenting, I would have to agree with statements such as: "If you loved me enough, you wouldn't __(action)____." And I just don't want to get into that kind of situation. I think that anyone who has ever tried using such an approach with a significant other to stop smoking or drinking or gambling or what-have-you has found out, love (or perceived lack of love) alone will generally not result in a change in behavior.

[Jock Scot]

Riverkilt: Fantastic. Thank you!!!

Jock Scott & Thistledown: While I may agree with you in principle, the practicality of taking such a stance is not quite so straightforward. First of all, we live in a very closed, isolated ex-pat community... One must always think and act diplomatically so as not only to avoid burning bridges, but also to not get tagged with a reputation that would hurt you in such a closed environment.

Secondly, most of my friends would not openly and plainly do something to disrespect me. It's not like they wake up in the morning and say to themselves, "Alrighty then. Today I'm going to p*** off Jim Dunlop," and cross it off their "to do" list... People in general forget themselves and don't consider others in their decisions. If I follow the line of reasoning that you're presenting, I would have to agree with statements such as: "If you loved me enough, you wouldn't __(action)____." And I just don't want to get into that kind of situation. I think that anyone who has ever tried using such an approach with a significant other to stop smoking or drinking or gambling or what-have-you has found out, love (or perceived lack of love) alone will generally not result in a change in behavior.

With the greatest of respect to you. It is your house and as such your guests should follow your standards. It is not for them to dictate to you how they should behave under your roof, what they do under their own roof, or other roofs, is entirely another matter altogether. Yes of course there are diplomatic repercussions, but that cuts both ways. You are gracious enough to open your house to guests and if the guests are not able to consider their behaviour as acceptable under your roof then firstly they should not come and secondly you should not feel obliged to ask them, particularly if you know their past unacceptable actions.

Word will get round that at Mr Dunlop's house there is an expected code of behaviour AND SO IT DAMN WELL SHOULD! You don't have to apologise to anyone for wanting civilised behaviour under your roof and that does not mean for one second that a good time cannot be had by all------hosts and guests. Your first post here demonstrates that some of your potential guests are influencing your life and the lives of the other well behaved guests and in my book, that will not do under any circumstances.

Unless the message gets through that there is an expected code of behaviour at Mr Dunlop's house, from all concerned, you will continue to have this problem.It is called respect and you should not have to apologise as a host for expecting it.If your friends cannot for a few hours behave themselves as your guests, then are they really friends? Not in my book and they are just being plain selfish, in that case I would have absolutely no problem in not inviting them, closed community or not.

[xman]

Official bartender sounds like a good idea, only having one person with access to the fridge/ drinks cabinet will stop people just going and having as much as they want and providing the bartender isn’t too busy he/she would also be able to say "wee Jimmy's had too much" and give him a soft drink instead.

This would be helpful. You might consider hiring one for the purpose.

Having already had a word with the individuals in question my advice as a sometime professional bartender is as follows.

1. Let everyone know that the event will not be dry, but it will be low key upon invitation.
2. Anyone who looks like they're getting too comfortable with yet another drink get's warned, "You're not going to make me cut you off, are you"? Really, these exact words will often take someone down a peg for you. At least they have for me.
3. IF you do cut someone off, bring them water and tell them they're done drinking if they want to stay. Look them in the eye.
4. Be prepared to follow through if it comes to it. Make it clear every step of the way and everyone will be on your side whenever anyone steps out of the bounds of propriety.

Just my 2p. Good luck.

X

[dutchy kilted]

I agree with Xman - hire a professional bartender for the night. It saves you to assist your wife and play the host. And if the bartender cuts off someone, well, he looks like the the bad guy, not you.

[ForresterModern]

I am with Xman on this. They have already been primed by your private discussions. Try to control the alcohol best you can, but if someone starts getting out of hand, warn them about a cutoff, and then if they don't fall into line, cut them off publicly, maybe even to the extent of askng them to leave. Socially causes them loss of face a bit, but then they have done that to themselves haven't they. Just be sure to not let them drive home drunk. Take their keys, physically if necessary. Call them a cab instead, and then the next morning when they come back for their own transportation, sober or hung over, they will have an apology to provide for not respecting your pre-stated "house rules". Like Jock said, it is your house, and they are invited guests. Would you let them smoke in your house if it was your rule that there was no smoking in the house? If they choose to embarrass themselves by ignoring the stated house rules it is their face that is lost, and you will be more respected for holding your own level of responsibility for all invited and involved.

Good luck, and good cheer.

[Riverkilt]

I agree that your friends don't "plan" to cause a problem. One of the criteria for alcohol dependence according to the American Psychiatric Associations Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is "the substance [alcohol in this case] is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period of time than was intended."

Another is, "there is a persistent desire or UNSUCCESSFUL EFFORTS TO cut down or CONTROL substance [alcohol] use."

It is quite possible that these particular friends have a drinking problem. if so, not much you can do but cope and endure - or not invite them.

[CaseyB]

My wife and I don't drink and, as a result, all of the events we host are dry. We host a successful monthly party that consistently draws 10-15 of our friends. We are the only ones in our group that abstain, but since the event is at our house our friends respect our decision and still have a wonderful time. I think it's all about expectations and if getting drunk isn't an expectation, then it can't be a disappointment. You may still have the issue with people coming "primed" but you can deal with that by asking them to leave if they get out of hand, and hopefully shame will help tweak the event in the future. I think the bottom line in that it is your home and any guest in your home should respect your wishes.

[davedove]

I don't want to have a "dry" event because that will annoy everybody, in particular the 7-8 people who drink responsibly and would really enjoy a couple of glasses of wine…

I hear this comment a lot from different people. While I don't think it's any big deal to have a couple of drinks and even do myself at times, there is also nothing wrong with having a dry event from time to time. You don't have to have alcohol to have a good time, and if someone does feel that way, they have their own issues.

[artificer]

Aye, you've got yourself a thorny situation there.

Perhaps a change in the dynamic of the gathering might help.
In my university days, I spent a lot of time around a group of exchange students from Asia.
I know your group is composed of westerners, but if they've adopted the traditions of lots of small toasts, refilling everyone's glasses before each toast, etc that I saw from my group of friends (who weren't uniformly Japanese, but from all over Asia), that may be part of the issue. It's VERY easy to have one-too-many in that atmosphere.

What if you shifted the party to a 'tasting menu' style of affair, where numerous small portions are introduced, each with a TINY sample of a wine/beer/etc that is meant to coordinate with. This puts the focus on presentation and truly TASTING each thing (booze included) rather than consuming volume. It also takes longer for each small course to be brought out and consumed, ESPECIALLY if someone in the know helps describe the various offerings and their thoughts on the interaction of food and drink. (and perhaps time for your guests in need to 'get their bearings').

It ends up being more work to prepare, but the change in style of the gathering may give you the edge in throwing off your guests patterns of behavior without the need for a showdown on 'rules of the house' (which you are entirely in the right to do BTW).

[thescot]

I believe that xman and Jock have good ideas. You don't have to be the slave of people acting badly. If that causes strife, then it's not on your head. I would make it plain again that overindugence is not OK, and I would also limit the amount of alcohol present. And make it plain that flasks are not OK as well.

Sure diplomacy is required, but that goes around. If you believe them to be alcoholics, then it is important that you not enable or allow them to draw you into the sickness. If they simply young and impetuous people, then you don't have to play.

Maybe I'm just old and crusty, but I will not be a party to rude or embarrassing behavior like that. I frew up in an alcoholic home, and I won't do that again. I enjoy a drink now and then, but I won't be a part of a friend's overindulgence, whether it's imprtuous or pathological. The DSM gives some pretty good guidelines, but even if it's not a sickness, it's not desirable either.

You just don't have to tolerate it in your own home. I like the "Am I going to have to cut you off?" approach. And then cut off and/or call a cab.

Good luck.