Etiquette lessons?

[Tobus]

Thank you, Jock Scot (and MacMillan of Rathdown and others) for your replies! I'm sure I'm not the only uncultured American who has never been taught any of this, and doesn't even know who to ask about such trivial things.

Americans really really need to learn how to use a butter knife correctly.

Can you expand on this?

[EHCAlum]

Thank you, Jock Scot (and MacMillan of Rathdown and others) for your replies! I'm sure I'm not the only uncultured American who has never been taught any of this, and doesn't even know who to ask about such trivial things.


Can you expand on this?

Butter knives are smaller flatware knives. A lot of people tend to use their own knife to slice and spread butter on their bread, potatoes and what have you. The butter knife is used to slice the butter and place it on your plate, and then you use your own knife to spread the butter where you like.

Think of it like a serving spoon, but for butter.

[Jock Scot]

Butter knives are smaller flatware knives. A lot of people tend to use their own knife to slice and spread butter on their bread, potatoes and what have you. The butter knife is used to slice the butter and place it on your plate, and then you use your own knife to spread the butter where you like.

Think of it like a serving spoon, but for butter.

The reason? That way you don't get jam, marmite, honey, marmalade, bits of potato spread all over the butter patt and therefore not ruining the taste of the butter for some one else.

[Lallans]

The reason? That way you don't get jam, marmite, honey, marmalade, bits of potato spread all over the butter patt and therefore not ruining the taste of the butter for some one else.

Or just crumbs in the butter, which always led to the Spanish Inquisition in my house.

[Tobus]

Butter knives are smaller flatware knives. A lot of people tend to use their own knife to slice and spread butter on their bread, potatoes and what have you. The butter knife is used to slice the butter and place it on your plate, and then you use your own knife to spread the butter where you like.

Think of it like a serving spoon, but for butter.

Ah, OK. That just seems like common sense and culinary cleanliness to me, not necessarily etiquette. I thought you were talking about some sort of faux-pas that Americans were making on how they hold the knife, spread the butter, or something similar.

I would put this subject under the same heading as double-dipping with a chip (crisp in the UK, I believe). You don't contaminate the source.

Thanks to all for the sound and sage advice and a little bit of humor. I literally laughed aloud at a couple of the comments (to be specific, the image of Tobus stabbing his food and eating it off his knife and MoR's comment about hunching over your plate if you're getting shot at!).

Humor aside, there are people here in Texas that do prefer to eat off their knives. Not necessarily in cultured settings, mind. But in the spirit of "doing as the Romans do", if you're sitting around the campfire eating fresh ribeye with a bunch of Texas cowboys after a long day of rounding up cattle, it's perfectly acceptable. Tuck that little tidbit of information away in case you ever need it!

[piperdbh]

...there are people here in Texas that do prefer to eat off their knives. ...if you're sitting around the campfire eating fresh ribeye with a bunch of Texas cowboys after a long day of rounding up cattle, it's perfectly acceptable. Tuck that little tidbit of information away in case you ever need it!

Consider it tucked.

[JerseyLawyer]

Humor aside, there are people here in Texas that do prefer to eat off their knives. Not necessarily in cultured settings, mind. But in the spirit of "doing as the Romans do", if you're sitting around the campfire eating fresh ribeye with a bunch of Texas cowboys after a long day of rounding up cattle, it's perfectly acceptable. Tuck that little tidbit of information away in case you ever need it!

There was a Jeopardy question that went something like, "According to the Handbook of Texas Etiquette, this is the plural form of y'all." The answer was "What is all y'all?"

A very good friend of mine who is a lifetime Alabamian, insists stridently that "y'all" is the proper second person plural, and that only the younger set use (improperly) "all y'all".

So, when in Rome - or Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery, or Mobile, I guess... :P

[Lallans]

Thank you, Jock Scot (and MacMillan of Rathdown and others) for your replies! I'm sure I'm not the only uncultured American who has never been taught any of this, and doesn't even know who to ask about such trivial things.


Can you expand on this?

As a Canadian living with a foot in both worlds, as it were, I just want to jump in and point out that it is mostly BRITISH manners that are being described here. The correct manners to use are the ones in use among the group you are with. I have been in [lowlife ] groups [ie, of peers ] that were really offended by the exquisite knife and fork method of eating- it works both ways. Remember that the correct hostess is one who sees a guest empty his finger bowl in a gulp and immediately does the same with hers.

[JerseyLawyer]

Remember that the correct hostess is one who sees a guest empty his finger bowl in a gulp and immediately does the same with hers.

What you've just summed up is what I learned as the difference between etiquette and good manners. Etiquette is knowing what to do when - which fork do I use now, what is the proper form of address for the Charge d'affairs from the Botswanian Legation, etc. Good manners is acting so as not to cause discomfort or embarrassment to others. Etiquette changes depending on the situation, but good manners are always the same. It's never "done" to be boorish.

Anyway, proper behavior can be a minefield sometimes. Remember that the gentleman walks on the curb (or kerb, if you like) side of the sidewalk (or pavement, again, if you like). He removes his hat... well, that's a bit trickier. Indoors is a good general rule, but he can leave it on inside large public spaces like the lobbies and corridors of an office building, though he removes it in private office suites, including waiting rooms, and in the elevator, unless the elevator is so crowded it will get crushed, unless there is a woman present... See what I mean?

Several good books have already been recommended. Emily Post's 'Etiquette' is now written by Peggy Post, and is in its umpteeth edition, but I still think it's the standard American manual on how to behave (and makes a good doorstop, since it's quite a tome). Debrett's, as Jock recommended, is good for English etiquette - 'Correct Form' is more about how you address people from all walks of life and engage in written correspondence (remember that Royal invitations are a command, so respond accordingly, etc.), so is somewhat less necessary from the point of view of "what fork do I use now".

As a final note, while there are lots of things that are thought of as "correct" most or all of the time, there are some things about which even the authoritative authors disagree (see my discussion on removing your hat). So, when in Rome, do as the Romans, and so on.

[Lallans]

I remember someone saying that he always relied on watching those around him for the correct etiquette to use, and this always worked until one day when he was in a situation where he realised everyone was watching him to see how to he was going to start eating some unfamiliar item. So I guess his method served him well up to that point, I mean, so well that it made him a role model. In my away-from-home youth, I used to wait to be served asparagus spears, which I had been told could correctly be eaten with the fingers- but no one ever did produce it in a mannered setting. So my one advanced tip on vegetables has lain dormant.