Etiquette lessons?

[Ruanaidh]

Who here uses a spoon and fork when eating pasta like fettuccine and spaghetti?

Sorry to go against the general consensus here, but to twirl the pasta on a spoon is considered gauche among proper Italian diners - like trying to eat peas off a knife. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood and the first time someone tried to use a spoon nonna (grandma) said "I cucchiai sono per i bambini" (spoons are for kids). It takes but little practice to learn to separate a few strands of pasta near the edge of the plate and wrap them around the tines of the fork.

[piperdbh]

On the other hand if we were discussing port---------------------
Lets see how you chaps get on with that one!

I say, Jock old chum, did you ever meet the Bishop of Raleigh?

[JerseyLawyer]

On the other hand if we were discussing port---------------------

As long as you're moving clockwise towards the bed, you won't miss the port, Jock. It does indeed go ever-leftward, and stoppeth not in its journey until the decanter is finished.

[Lallans]

Canuck wrote: “Each of the dozen or so times he asked me about it in the next few days, I suggested alternate wordings, like ‘bathroom’ and ‘men’s room’ but he didn’t seem to accept that such a request wouldn’t really mean he wanted to take a bath or get a whisky straight up out of sight of the ladies or something – and one suspects also that we could be so exquisitely sensitive about that one word . . . because (I fear) that we are so apparently crude about so many other things.”

The euphemism “bathroom” for a place which has only toilet facilities is one that I find really offensive. In South Africa we do call such a room a toilet (after all, the word means a place where one washes one’s hands – there is no reference in it to urinals or toilet bowls [there’s that word again!]).
Men’s room also is a euphemism of sorts, but it can pass.
Regards,
Mike

There you go then. Things are different all over. To me, it sounds like you're describing a 'hand lavatory'- not that I've ever heard of such a thing. Hey, how about asking for a 'lavatory' in South Africa? Which I believe is latin for 'washroom'?

[wildrover]

The correct manners to use are the ones in use among the group you are with.

To rephrase what Jersey said, "Etiquette is knowing how to do it properly, manners is knowing when to do it properly."

Or just crumbs in the butter, which always led to the Spanish Inquisition in my house.

Or peanut butter in the jelly jar, or jelly in the peanut butter jar. One of my pet peeves, and no I don't care that they'll all end up smooshed together on the bread. The horror!

Sometimes lessons in manners can come from humor...try the book "Talk to the Hand", regarding manners in modern (American) culture.

I remember someone saying that he always relied on watching those around him for the correct etiquette to use, and this always worked until one day when he was in a situation where he realised everyone was watching him to see how to he was going to start eating some unfamiliar item. So I guess his method served him well up to that point, I mean, so well that it made him a role model.

Interesting. My reaction, upon noticing that all eyes were upon me, would be to make casual conversation with a neighbor until someone else had the balls to dig in.

Humor aside, there are people here in Texas that do prefer to eat off their knives.

Tenderloin off the grill at the top of the outpost in the backcountry of the ski resort is best eaten this way as well.

I certainly was taught to hold my fork in the left hand and the knife in the right, although I can understand if a lefty wants to do it the other way round.

I was never taught one way or the other, come to think of it...more like, it just seemed natural to hold something in place with the fork, and wield the knife with the more dexterous hand. Holding the fork "upside down" also seemed natural...you can't spear something from above, when the tines are sideways. So I eat the meat off the point of the knife sometimes...

But seriously, whether the steak is eaten off a backward fork, or off the point of the knife, is all about manners as opposed to etiquette. BTW only little kids chop all their meat in to little bites and then eat it. Besides, if you do that, your steak will get colder, faster.

As a way to remember which utensil goes in which hand, I was told once that it would be impolite to stab someone with a fork.

Then, recalling that lettuce was supposed to be eaten with fingers, I grabbed at the salad, only to hear my aunt say: “You eeet like a peeg!”

I actually do have a few cookbooks. Every one, where the lettuce is to be eaten, suggests tearing or chopping the lettuce in to bite-sized pieces so that one need not choose between only a fork, or fingers, to do battle with an oversized leaf of lettuce. To force guests to eat whole leaves of lettuce, is to make them eeet like peegs . I wonder how she would've taken that remark.

Peas...same thing, along with any other item on the plate that simply cannot be eaten without a bunch of drama. Pass the honey, please.

But at a braai you cook the meat yourself, and you eat it with your fingers.
(Okay, the boerewors is often hot, and you can use a fork for that.)
Not at my uncle’s house! The food was prepared by waiters in white coats, who then brought it to the table and served it on dinnerware. The guests ate it with silver knives and forks!

...Like eating a candy bar with your knife and fork. Snooty folk just don't know how to BBQ.

He went up to the lunch counter...

I can totally see that. I tend to use the term 'head'...it's completely obfuscating, every guy knows exactly what it means, and it can be hilarious if asked of a young woman (though "restroom" is better)...but it's always asked...well, discreetly. Not..."HEY BRO WHERZ TEH SH&TTER!"

...Unless the request is humorous .

On the other hand if we were discussing port---------------------

I can handle that one. In most situations in America, port goes like this:

"What the hell are you drinking?" But to be honest, it's rare when a bunch of people sit down and drink nothing but port.

Food is also passed to the left, and the dish rarely touches the table. Is this a matter of convenience, necessity, or some bizarre decree?

Sooo...serious question, now...

In a Moroccan restaurant, where one may be expected to eeet like a peeeg as a matter of good etiquette, how does one approach sloppy foods?

[Drac]

In a Moroccan restaurant, where one may be expected to eeet like a peeeg as a matter of good etiquette, how does one approach sloppy foods?

If they eat like quite a few Mid-east countries I've been in there's a trick/pattern. You rip off a piece of flat bread and use it as your silverware. Most of the meals I had went like this -

Dip into the falafel, use that to stick the rice/couscous to the bread and than remove a piece of meat from the skewer.

This was mostly in Turkey, Greece, Israel and Saudi Arabia at mostly backstreet places. The fancy restraunts still had normal flatware.

I learned this growing up in Detroit eating at Greek and Mideast places.

One thing to know is if your host is Islamic. If so remember to not use your left hand. Now I have seen many who do so I don't know how much this is enforced.

Jim

[Cygnus]

...

I actually do have a few cookbooks. Every one, where the lettuce is to be eaten, suggests tearing or chopping the lettuce in to bite-sized pieces so that one need not choose between only a fork, or fingers, to do battle with an oversized leaf of lettuce. To force guests to eat whole leaves of lettuce, is to make them eeet like peegs . I wonder how she would've taken that remark.

...

I discovered that salads in Southern Brazil tend to consist of whole leaves of lettuce and that you're expected to eat them with a fork and a salad knife. Watching others at the table, I learned that you're not supposed to cut the lettuce, you're supposed to use the knife and fork to fold it into a bite-sized square which you then spear and eat.

It's actually a really great way to eat a salad, as you can fold smaller things into the leaf to ensure they don't roll off the fork. Now my friends and family give me grief because I can't for the life of me eat any salad without using a knife! Using just a fork seems too sloppy.

[Jock Scot]

Wildrover.

Who said port would be the only thing to drink? At a full blown dinner you would have a white wine, a very cold Hock perhaps, with the fish course, followed by room temperature Claret with the main course of say, venison, then a glass of water with the sorbet to clear the palate, followed by a very cold Sauternes with the sweet and then the port(at warm room temp.) with the cheese, with coffee and more port, or perhaps a brandy to follow

OK these types of meals are not a regular occurrence, but they do still happen!

At a more realistic and normal dinner with say a dozen friends, the meal will start with a soup and then perhaps venison or roast beef or some such. Both of these courses there would be a red wine, then a sweet(pudding) and then cheese where the port will appear.

So what to do with the port? Yes indeed the port(decanted usually)is passed to the left by the host and is passed around the table in thus manner until it returns to the host where it sits on his right, until he deems the time is right to pass it on again. Now the basic idea(there are minor but important variations on this, but for this post I won't confuse things, so beware!)is that each guest fills his glass and then passes the decanter to his left and on it gently goes around the table.It is bad form to hurry this process and it is even more bad form to delay the passing of the decanter. In the old days, at this stage of events, the women have left the dining room to leave the men to men's talk whilst the women discuss the finer points of knitting or some such!!Er well, these days the women often choose stay and partake of the port too!PHEW!!

Port is a drink to sip and savour and with cheese the flavours are brought to the fore. Remember two things, firstly a vintage port is often a VERY expensive gift to you to share, by the host, so enjoy it and secondly, port is notoriously unforgiving to those that overdo the quantity!

[Jack Daw]

The biggest difference is in how you cut and then eat your food.

In the American side of the pond, while cutting the fork is held in the left hand and the knife in the right. Once the bite is cut off, you set the knife down, transfer the fork to the right hand, and then spear and pass the food with your fork to your mouth.

On the European side, once the food is cut, you retain hold of both utensils and transfer the food to your mouth with the fork in the left hand.

This is, of course, a generalization, but fairly accurate. I have heard of tales where undercover American spies were suspected because they ate holding the fork wrong (no idea of the validity of this).


As far as the utensils set above the plate, I have always read that those are for dessert. But, again, that practice is far from universal.

Being a lefty, I eat European style - not transferring my knife and fork. Frankly, when I see people do the American style, I find it sort of annoying. What I'm intrigued with is how some Scots scoop food onto the back of the fork tines and successfully transfer to the mouth without dropping anything.

[Jock Scot]

Simple JD, all it takes is a loving mother a series of stern governesses, a horde of even more stern school teachers and the whole knife and fork issue and the mysteries of the pea and fork are solved by the age of ten!