Irish vs Scottish Relations

[Sir William]

Jock summed it up nicely.

I've worn a kilt to several "Irish" functions without any problem. I will say that I usually like to wear my Elliot kilt as many Elliots went from the Borders to Ireland.

[davidlpope]

Am I OK wearing a Scottish clan kilt to an Irish pipe band ball, or will I invoke the anger and ire of those who experienced the troubles? I am a new member of a pipe band. The band is Irish, has an Irish name, is sponsored by and meets at the Ancient Order of Hibernians. Many of the membership are actually Irish citizens, and many of them experienced the troubles personally.

Question # 1: Given the role of Scottish protestant settlers in Northern Ireland, and of Scottish troops of the British Army in Northern Ireland, do I risk causing anger if I wear my Scottish clan kilt to the ball?

Question(s) # 2: What attitudes do the Irish have regarding Scottish people? Favorable, unfavorable? What insights do our Irish members have on this? What insights do our Scottish members have on this? Conversely, how do the Scottish feel toward the Irish?

Do you wear the kilt day in and day out? If not, then why wear Scottish Highland dress to an "Irish" function in the first place?

In terms of your specific questions, as Jock pointed out, you're an AMERICAN in AMERICA. Despite the fact that we may fancy ourselves "Scottish-this" or "Irish-that", it seems a little silly to import an ancient conflict into our modern American lives, borrowing trouble, so to speak. Lord knows we have plenty of "ancient conflicts" of our own that we probably need to address better...

For those persons who will be at the event and were actually personally touched by these issues, I suspect they have come to their own conclusions and don't need a bunch of newly self-discovered "American Celts" stirring the pot!!

David

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I see you mention the Ancient Order of Hibernians. Can't speak for everywhere, but in many towns the AOH tends to be a Catholic only group...

Zardoz,

That's because the AoH is a specifically Catholic organization, like the Knights of Columbus or the Catholic Daughters of the Americas.

[Lyle1]

Do you wear the kilt day in and day out? If not, then why wear Scottish Highland dress to an "Irish" function in the first place?

In terms of your specific questions, as Jock pointed out, you're an AMERICAN in AMERICA. Despite the fact that we may fancy ourselves "Scottish-this" or "Irish-that", it seems a little silly to import an ancient conflict into our modern American lives, borrowing trouble, so to speak. Lord knows we have plenty of "ancient conflicts" of our own that we probably need to address better...

For those persons who will be at the event and were actually personally touched by these issues, I suspect they have come to their own conclusions and don't need a bunch of newly self-discovered "American Celts" stirring the pot!!


David

Very good point and well said. Also, you could discuss your concerns with another member of the band or two. If you don't feel that you know anyone well enough to bring up the topic, then why would you even consider wearing a kilt if you even think it might cause offense?

[macwilkin]

Do you wear the kilt day in and day out? If not, then why wear Scottish Highland dress to an "Irish" function in the first place?

In terms of your specific questions, as Jock pointed out, you're an AMERICAN in AMERICA. Despite the fact that we may fancy ourselves "Scottish-this" or "Irish-that", it seems a little silly to import an ancient conflict into our modern American lives, borrowing trouble, so to speak. Lord knows we have plenty of "ancient conflicts" of our own that we probably need to address better...

For those persons who will be at the event and were actually personally touched by these issues, I suspect they have come to their own conclusions and don't need a bunch of newly self-discovered "American Celts" stirring the pot!!

David

David raises a very good point; I will be attending the Advent service of the local German Society this year, and I can't say the thought of wearing my Highland rig to it ever crossed my mind. I suppose I might consider it if I was offically representing our St. Andrew's Society or something, but since I will be a mere spectator, I'll probably go in "mufti", especially since I don't own any tracht items.

I did wear my kilt to a Scandinavian Society meeting, but it was a joint meeting of our two societies for Midsommar to discuss Scotland and Norway's connections in the Second World War.

T.

[macwilkin]

Zardoz,

That's because the AoH is a specifically Catholic organization, like the Knights of Columbus or the Catholic Daughters of the Americas.

And specifically, an Irish Catholic organization...

T.

[Lallans]

I once moved to an area of Ontario where the religious wars of the 16th century are still going on (not visibly but smoldering as it were), but I have experienced chilly Irish-Scots reactions over a kilt on only one occasion- and that was due to my obliviousness to the organizers of a Celtic event to which I sported a kilt AND a t-shirt for the Ulster team of the Irish Football League. It was the word 'Ulster' that did it I'm sure, although the shirt had produced friendly reactions on its own, and in fact still does. As a friend later observed, the kilt and shirt combination put me "on the wrong side of the parade". Don't do anything to suggest a "side" and you should have no problem.

Especially because, as discussed in another thread, the kilt is considered Irish by many people including the Irish- which is fair enough from a pan-celtic perspective.

[macwilkin]

I once moved to an area of Ontario where the religious wars of the 16th century are still going on (not visibly but smoldering as it were), but I have experienced chilly Irish-Scots reactions over a kilt on only one occasion- and that was due to my obliviousness to the organizers of a Celtic event to which I sported a kilt AND a t-shirt for the Ulster team of the Irish Football League. It was the word 'Ulster' that did it I'm sure, although the shirt had produced friendly reactions on its own, and in fact still does. As a friend later observed, the kilt and shirt combination put me "on the wrong side of the parade". Don't do anything to suggest a "side" and you should have no problem.

Especially because, as discussed in another thread, the kilt is considered Irish by many people including the Irish- which is fair enough from a pan-celtic perspective.

I had a similar experience in an Irish pub in St. Louis when I wore my Hearts FC scarf over my Barbour Jacket. The Celtic strip over the bar should have been the first clue.

T.

[Lallans]

I had a similar experience in an Irish pub in St. Louis when I wore my Hearts FC scarf over my Barbour Jacket. The Celtic strip over the bar should have been the first clue.

T.

I suppose if I had worn my Rangers garb with the kilt I might have been killed outright.

[Riverkilt]

Sounds like a wonderful current anthropology/sociology/political field test. Kilt up, go, and note what happens.