wearing other family tartan rather than your own

[davidlpope]

I tend to agree that it would be the courteous and proper thing to do, to ask permission. But if you receive no reply, is it still courteous and proper to go ahead and wear it anyway? In other words, why ask at all if the answer is irrelevant?

A brief anecdote may be helpful:

After I decided that I wanted the wonderful woman whom I had been dating for many years to be my bride, I paid a call on my future in-laws unbeknowst to Jeannie. During the visit I asked their blessing to marry their daughter. I didn't have to do this and I didn't ask for their permission. If Jeannie had not consented to marry me then her parent's opinions would have been irrelevant. But then (and still now) I felt like it is the courteous, proper, and gentlemanly thing to do.

In the same way, you may not have to ask a clan chief's permission to buy a kilt in his clan tartan and wear it, but in my mind you should, if said chief hasn't previously given a blanket permission that would include you (i.e. by surname, blood, etc.). Perhaps old-fashioned, perhaps "unnecessary", but nice and proper by my way of thinking...

And if you don't get a response from your request? Well, I still think that your making the overture is still worth the effort.

David

[Mike_Oettle]

Well put, David. My thinking has been on the same lines.
Regards,
Mike

[Tobus]

In the same way, you may not have to ask a clan chief's permission to buy a kilt in his clan tartan and wear it, but in my mind you should, if said chief hasn't previously given a blanket permission that would include you (i.e. by surname, blood, etc.). Perhaps old-fashioned, perhaps "unnecessary", but nice and proper by my way of thinking...

And if you don't get a response from your request? Well, I still think that your making the overture is still worth the effort.

David

That was a well-made point, and again, I agree that courtesy demands that it should be asked of the clan chief if there is no blood relation. But it would seem to me that the same courtesy should also demand that one wait on an answer. Otherwise it wasn't a courtesy to ask at all. Might as well just tell the chief, "Hey, I'm going to wear your tartan whether you like it or not. It would be nice if you approved, but even if you don't, I'm still going to do it without your approval." That would be more intellectually honest than asking for his approval insincerely.

To put it simply: does a gentleman ask a question for courtesy's sake, but then completely ignore the reply and expect to still be seen as courteous? One might conclude that it's actually more injurious to ask permission and ignore the answer, than to just never ask in the first place.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, nor am I passing judgment on anyone/anything. In fact, my statements above sound more harsh than I intend them to, but I can't think of any other way to make the rhetorical point that needed to be made, and it seems there is a sort of unspoken double standard on this subject amongst people everywhere when it comes to clan tartan wearing. And I suppose it could be applied to asking for a daughter's hand in marriage too. Why ask the question if one is going to ignore the response?

[kc8ufv]

That was a well-made point, and again, I agree that courtesy demands that it should be asked of the clan chief if there is no blood relation. But it would seem to me that the same courtesy should also demand that one wait on an answer. Otherwise it wasn't a courtesy to ask at all. Might as well just tell the chief, "Hey, I'm going to wear your tartan whether you like it or not. It would be nice if you approved, but even if you don't, I'm still going to do it without your approval." That would be more intellectually honest than asking for his approval insincerely.

To put it simply: does a gentleman ask a question for courtesy's sake, but then completely ignore the reply and expect to still be seen as courteous? One might conclude that it's actually more injurious to ask permission and ignore the answer, than to just never ask in the first place.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, nor am I passing judgment on anyone/anything. In fact, my statements above sound more harsh than I intend them to, but I can't think of any other way to make the rhetorical point that needed to be made, and it seems there is a sort of unspoken double standard on this subject amongst people everywhere when it comes to clan tartan wearing. And I suppose it could be applied to asking for a daughter's hand in marriage too. Why ask the question if one is going to ignore the response?

Combining sentiment of several posts, I don't gather that those posting here would wear a given tartan if permission were denied, more that such requests may frequently go unanswered. If you were to ask a lass's parents for permission to marry her, and they failed to respond to your request, wouldn't you assume implied permission, until otherwise expressed?

[piperdbh]

After I decided that I wanted the wonderful woman whom I had been dating for many years to be my bride, I paid a call on my future in-laws unbeknowst to Jeannie. During the visit I asked their blessing to marry their daughter. I didn't have to do this and I didn't ask for their permission. If Jeannie had not consented to marry me then her parent's opinions would have been irrelevant. But then (and still now) I felt like it is the courteous, proper, and gentlemanly thing to do.

Having met your lovely bride, I'd say you made a very wise decision.

In the same way, you may not have to ask a clan chief's permission to buy a kilt in his clan tartan and wear it, but in my mind you should, if said chief hasn't previously given a blanket permission that would include you (i.e. by surname, blood, etc.). Perhaps old-fashioned, perhaps "unnecessary", but nice and proper by my way of thinking... And if you don't get a response from your request? Well, I still think that your making the overture is still worth the effort.

I'm in the beginning stages of a project involving this very thing, and plan to follow this advice to the letter.