Angus District tartan

[emhepri]

Just a question to put to the group. I am planning on weaving the Angus District Tartan and making a kilt. The question is, what is the correct thread count. I have the thread count from the SRT which is as follows:
Black-12, Red-4, Black-56, Blue-56, Red-4, Blue-4, Red-4, Blue-4, Red-8

I have another thread count which was given to be by the dealer where I purchased my wool yarn from, it is as follows:
Black-6, Red-2, Black-64, Blue-56, Red-2, Blue-4, Red-2, Blue-4, Red-6

I don't really know what the source was that the dealer used to get the tartan thread count from, and don't know which is the actual tartan.

They both look nice, but I want the actual "correct" tartan.

Any info would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Ernie

[xman]

Ah, "correct". I would say the correct one would be the one that you think looks best, works best and still retains the character of the tartan. Tartans are, have always been and shall remain a weaver's game not, as is sometimes misunderstood, a heraldically rigid prescription. The notion that there is a proper thread count and an improper one is not supportable. Consider what size you would like to see and how the selvedge will turn out on the loom. If you don't know the answers to these questions, trust your weaver. They are professionals and do know.

[emhepri]

Thanks XMAN,

I like that response. I have woven both of these thread counts and do like the by the SRT better. There is not much difference between the two thread counts, but I like the SRT better pleated that the other thread count.

Thanks again

[ForresterModern]

Interestingly Scotweb lists a couple versions of the Angus District tartan, Modern, Ancient, and Muted, and although they look like two different threadcounts visually, they are listed with the same STA number and threadcount:

ancient--lochcarron's photo of their 16oz


modern--computer generated image of House of Edgar 13oz


Threadcount:
Black 12
Red 4
Black 56
Blue 56
Red 4
Blue 4
Red 4
Blue 4
Red 8
Blue 4
Red 4
Blue 4
Red 4
Blue 56
Black 56
Red 4

To my eye there is more space between the two red stripes on the black field in the Lochcarron photo than the second.

j

[David Thornton]

I wear the ancient and quite like it

[MacMillans son]

"To my eye there is more space between the two red stripes on the black field in the Lochcarron photo than the second" (to quote Jeff).


I would assume that to be the result in the different weight fabrics. As I understand it, the fabric weight is a function of the thread diameter, hence heavier fabric is thicker than lighter fabric. If you use the same number of a wider thread it makes the spacing between points on the tartan larger. I believe that is why 16 oz tartan has a larger sett than the same tartan woven in lighter weight yarn. 10 large threads cover more space than 10 smaller ones.

Yes?

[davidlpope]

"To my eye there is more space between the two red stripes on the black field in the Lochcarron photo than the second" (to quote Jeff).


I would assume that to be the result in the different weight fabrics. As I understand it, the fabric weight is a function of the thread diameter, hence heavier fabric is thicker than lighter fabric. If you use the same number of a wider thread it makes the spacing between points on the tartan larger. I believe that is why 16 oz tartan has a larger sett than the same tartan woven in lighter weight yarn. 10 large threads cover more space than 10 smaller ones.

Yes?

Larger individual threads (16oz. fabric v. 10oz. fabric) do increase the size of the sett. The difference in thread weight, though, doesn't change the ratio of the threads to each other, as all threads are bigger in the heavier weight. The thread counts for the two images pictured are not the same, despite being given as such. Compare the width of the red stripes in the black to the overall width of the black, it's a different proportion between the two pictures.

In terms of which specific thread-count to use for this weave, you have two options:

1. Use the "official" one from the STA (because you value "correctness" over aesthetics).

or

2. Play around with a tartan generator program and determine which thread-count looks best to you (because you value aesthetics over "correctness").

I recently dealt with this on a custom-run of Hunting MacMillan tartan. I had swatches from three different mills, each with a different thread count, in addition to the STA threadcount which was different from them all. All were easily recognizable as Hunting MacMillan, but there were subtle differences in the proportions of the colors. In the end I used the STA threadcount as the base and made a few changes because I liked the look of my modified thread count better than any of the others.

In the end, no one other than yourself will know...


Best of luck,

David

[emhepri]

Just wanted to say a THANKS to all responses. I appreciate your time and knowledge.