Square one for DIY sgian dubh.

[AKScott]

First of all, I need/want a legitimate sgian DO, not a sgian DON'T. I am not looking to field dress a moose, but I do use knives regularly in typical days. I have enormous hands to go with my relatively average frame and weight, a problem with a knife to be carried in a sock.

Second, making a sgian is way harder than making a kilt pin.

Just imagine some new user comes along, basic workshop skills, no knife making experience, what are the links and tips you have to make something that works?

I am pretty much down to full tang stainless blade blank and wood scales.

For me to trust the thing is has to be well built, and reach diagonally across my hand. I can work with a 3.5 inch handle but I really want 4.5 inches (8.9cm minimum to 11.5cm optimal). Plus it has to be light enough to carry in a sock. And I want good circulation to my right foot, so cinching up the right garter is a non-starter.

The internet is flooded with wooden knife scale blanks, but my google-fu gets me jack-doodle for "stainless full tang sgian dubh blade blank".

Question one is Where can I buy an inexpensive (stainless?) full tang sgian blank? while I learn to make these.

I do think it is possible to make a sgian DO from a stick tang with an antler tip handle and poor man's pewter. However, poor man's pewter is heavy; when I take that on next I'll be drilling antler pith twice at stick tang thickness and connecting the holes with a file. Drilling the antler pith at stick tang width was mistake number one on prototype sgian number one.

Once I have a working tool in a light enough weight to carry in a sock, the next hurdle is I require the thing to stay put while I sprint up flights of stairs. My requirement is it has to stay put up two flights to meet expectations, to exceed expectations it will have to stay put while I sprint up three flights.

I think I found the answer. If I could copy/ paste the responses from this old thread forward into this thread I would :
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...th-grip-63303/

and then delete that thread into here so future search button users would end up here.

I think the sheath answer that requires a traditional sgian handle profile, and fits MoR's parameters, and works like cavscout's, and should hold while sprinting up stairs, is this one:

http://www.knives.com/knivslida.html

Note how the knife handle shown on that page features two bellies on perpendicular axes, just like most of the traditional sgian handles shown by google images for sgian dubh.

I have been working with vegetable tanned leather for years, but wet molding is going to be new for me.

Question two is I want to wet mold vegetable tanned leather for function, not appearance. Boiling water for two minutes or warm water for twelve hours? What else do I need to consider?

Finally, I have never joined metal to wood before. The pin holes with a drill press and epoxy seem pretty straight forward, but how do I shape the wood down to the profile of the metal tang without ruining a perfectly good wood rasp?

Thanks. Imagine you have no experience, handtools, a vise, a drill press and a VISA card, and you want to make a sgian of your own.

[Drac]

I will say straight out that I have minimal knowledge on using just hand tools for making knives. I will cover some of what I have picked up from others who have done it that way.

I wouldn't recommend a rasp when shaping a handle unless you are taking off more than a 1/4" of wood. It is to easy to get to the point where you say that's where I want it and than the sanding out the coarse scratch marks you end up taking to much wood off. It is always better to use a finer file to remove the last part of the wood. It will also make the cleanup work easier and quicker.

Since you will have pins to make fit my way to attach with minimal tools would be to rough shap without the pins glued in. Glue in the pins that have been cut close to size and use a metal file to finish shaping the pins and handles. You will have to clean the file a lot but it should make it possible.

Now for drilling holes without a drill press, that will be difficult to get straight. I would recommend drilling the handle and after heat treating the blade glue one handle on and after the epoxy has cured drill through both. I would take time to shape the handle piece close to the sides of the tang (don't remove anything from the face yet) with a cooping saw. A file might put to much stress on the glue joint. Than glue on the other side. Once it has cured use the hole from the previous side as a guide to drill through the other side. Go slow, it is important to go straight or else you will have to do new handles.

As for wet shaping, I've done it quite a few times but I am hardly an expert. For that please let me direct you to a knife making forum that also has a sheath making sub-forum -

http://knifenetwork.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16

They have three sheath makers who without doubt are the best in the world - Martin "Sandy" Morressy (the best carver I know and makes the best "user" sheaths), Chuck Burrows (the best at historic sheaths and VERY well verse in Scottish history and weapons) and Paul Long (awesome at basket weaves and dress peices). Between the three of them there is probably over 150 years of sheath making. Unlike most sheath makers these guys are first sheath makers and secondly leather workers.

I would also recommend if you want more info on making a knife with minimal tools that this is the place to research -

http://knifenetwork.com/forum/

Most of what I know on knife making is either from this forum, the reading material from this forum or working in the shops of the makers from this forum.

Jim

[Taygrd]

My first concern would be using stainless steel. Most of the blanks are purely ornamental unless they are carbon steel. But there may be some exceptions out there. Pithy antler can be overcome with modern adhesives like JB Weld or PC7. Hollow out all of the pith and pack it with one of those. You can do it at the same time you sick in the tang and kill two birds with one stone. To drill a straight hole with out a press use a square or something similiar as a guide while drilling. Wet shaping is best done with a vacum seal but I have done it by hand. Just wet the leather and press in the form then leave it alone. Sorry for the one liners but if you have any questions just ask Good luck!

[Piper]

You can pick up a cheap sgian dubh blank from www.atlantacutlery.com . Not the best piece of steel, but certainly adequate for most uses. They're a stick tang, witht the last inch or so threaded. I've used them to make a few sgians. I usually use epoxy if I'm using wood for the handle. If I'm using antler, I usually use poured pewter for the bolster and the pommel, and that tends to hold the blade securely.

[Tartan Hiker]

Check out this blade. RGR-05. I'm in the process of making one up for sgian duty. I didn't take any WIP pics, but I can probably get a current shot this evening. I like the look of RIP-04 as well. Green River blades are very good metal.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/catego...yleID=201&as=1

[Tartan Hiker]

Here's my Green River in progress. I have everything done except the pins at this point.
The scales are wormy American Chestnut, with Black Walnut bolsters. I really like combining these woods (I have a dulcimer that is made of chestnut and walnut), and both pieces were collected from down/dead logs in the area where I work each summer.

To address one of your questions: I used to shape handles by clamping a belt sander to my workbench and using it like a stationary sanding station. I just got a real stationary sander (4" belt and 6" disc combo) as a Christmas present, and it's first task was to finish this knife handle. The final sanding will take place after the pins are in. Sandpaper will take brass pins down just fine, and if you are patient you won't destroy the belt in the process.

Scales go on one at a time with 2-ton epoxy. Glue one on. After the glue sets drill through the tang and the scale. Glue on the other scale, then chase through scale one to drill scale two. Set the pins with more 2-ton and you're ready to finish.

By the way, I always give my handles a saturation with Watco Danish oil and after a week or so cover that with satin polyethylene.

I've used a couple of the Atlanta Cutlery sgian blades. They are nice-looking, but they hold an edge about as well as a popsicle stick, and they are really small. I won't carry a knife that is not usable and able to carry an edge.

You might want to take a peek at this old thread where I documented my first sgian attempt. It shows the jury-rigged belt sander in action.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...d-along-15577/

[sp00ky]

Here's my Green River in progress. I have everything done except the pins at this point.

Blood drops on the table???

[AKScott]

Tartan Hiker, excellent link back. I sheepishly admit than when I searched here I only went back two years. Thank you.

Below are two pictures of my first knife. I used an antler tine I already had in stock, the smallest knife blade I could buy here in town and my experience with poor man's pewter. I have ended up with a knife to keep on my workbench.

Couple mistakes. I drilled the pith with a bit just under half an inch so I could fit the tang all in one go. I have also noted I need to pour a lot more pewter than I expected.

I suspect moose antler pith is not very resistant to hot liquid pewter. This first knife is far too heavy to seriously consider carrying in kilt hose. I don't know if this issue is specific to moose antler or happens with other antler types also.

So it is too heavy to wear in kilt hose.

Also, while I did manage to pour a thumb bolster using construction paper and masking tape for the form, I am not going to be able to sheath it using the "knifeslida" style in the link post one this thread.

Moving forward I am going to keep this knife on my bench top as my bench knife, and start over. For knife #2 I am going with an all wood handle, and I am going to buy another of the same blade here in town.

Once I can make a reasonably good looking knife, then I will pay shipping on a proper sgian blade.

The second pic, close up of handle, is partly natural and partly dremeled down to smooth. I will play with that at some point in the future, that is sand an antler tine down smooth to see how it looks.



EDIT: This knife is actually a pretty good knife. The balance point is right at the tip of my index finger just behind the blade guard. One of my hunting buddies got a moose a few days ago, at -20F, packed it out from the field on a snowmachine. Today (1-30-2011) was cut and package day. I have a rack full of Cutco, but the handle shape, blade shape and balance point on this one made it my go to knife all afternoon, for everything except cutting steak slices from bigger pieces of meat. It's a keeper.

[Tartan Hiker]

Yes, it doesn't take much pewter to make the knife very heavy. The last time I made one with a pewter bolster I packed the antler hole with epoxy, leaving about 1/4 inch at the top for the pewter to fill. Score the tang and the inside of the hole with the dremel and it will hold just fine even with that small amount of contact.

I like the look of your knife. The extended finger guard is a touch I've never considered. Very nice. I bet it will polish up beautifully.

You may already know this, but when you are pouring pewter don't forget to smack the bench top a few times as it cools to loosen any cavities that may form in the molten pewter. Learned that lesson the hard way.

I like the look of that blade. What's it made of?

[AKScott]

I like the look of that blade. What's it made of?

The blade I could find local to me, cash and carry, about the right size for a sgian is made by Brusletto of Norway, 10cm blade, labeled "Laminert knivstal".

I think that means laminated knife steel:
http://www.brusletto.no/index.php?sp...D=424&ledd1=38

It was US$18.55 out the door. A suitabe price point for a blade while learning to make knives I think.