The Tweed Argyll.

[OC Richard]

I think that the reason that I think of a black, charcoal grey, and a check tweed Argyll as being of different levels of formality is that I unconsciously equate them with various sorts of "Saxon" dress:

black barathea Argyll = tuxedo
charcoal grey Argyll = formal dark grey suit
check tweed Argyll = plaid tweed sportcoat with contrasting slacks

But evidently this line of thinking would never occur to a Scot, as I understand? It's good to know.

[Jock Scot]

I think that the reason that I think of a black, charcoal grey, and a check tweed Argyll as being of different levels of formality is that I unconsciously equate them with various sorts of "Saxon" dress:

black barathea Argyll = tuxedo
charcoal grey Argyll = formal dark grey suit
check tweed Argyll = plaid tweed sportcoat with contrasting slacks

But evidently this line of thinking would never occur to a Scot, as I understand? It's good to know.

The black barathea,silver buttoned argyle is first and foremost formal day attire with the 5 button waist coat(morning coat equivalent),but is very successfully used for formal evening dress (tux equivalent with the low cut 3 button waist coat).Many may consider a PC as tux equivalent and they would be quite correct too.

Tweed argylls of whatever colour and pattern fit the bill as business suit, lounge suit,blazer and sports jacket. It is the condition of them that is more the deciding factor to the occasion that they are worn at!

[Whidbey78]

I think that the reason that I think of a black, charcoal grey, and a check tweed Argyll as being of different levels of formality is that I unconsciously equate them with various sorts of "Saxon" dress:

black barathea Argyll = tuxedo
charcoal grey Argyll = formal dark grey suit
check tweed Argyll = plaid tweed sportcoat with contrasting slacks

I have to agree 100 percent. In North America, the US in particular, we often think of "smoother" looking fabrics, tight and fine patterns, and solid colors as somehow "dressier" than the various houndstooth, check, etc. I know I'm guilty of this one.

Tweed argylls of whatever colour and pattern fit the bill as business suit, lounge suit,blazer and sports jacket. It is the condition of them that is more the deciding factor to the occasion that they are worn at!

Very well put. Simply put as well. The concept finally makes sense to me. Thanks. I'll have to try to incorporate this into my thinking, but it may take time with decades of conditioning to overcome.

[Jack Daw]

I have to agree 100 percent. In North America, the US in particular, we often think of "smoother" looking fabrics, tight and fine patterns, and solid colors as somehow "dressier" than the various houndstooth, check, etc. I know I'm guilty of this one.



Very well put. Simply put as well. The concept finally makes sense to me. Thanks. I'll have to try to incorporate this into my thinking, but it may take time with decades of conditioning to overcome.

Well, I have to wear a "business" suit everyday, which in banking is considered a dark (black, navy blue, charcoal grey, etc.), muted pattern (pin-stripes, glen plaid, windowpane, etc.) with the smoother finished fabric (as you say). A tweed jacket would be worn on casual Fridays...in the winter.

[Jock Scot]

Well, I have to wear a "business" suit everyday, which in banking is considered a dark (black, navy blue, charcoal grey, etc.), muted pattern (pin-stripes, glen plaid, windowpane, etc.) with the smoother finished fabric (as you say). A tweed jacket would be worn on casual Fridays...in the winter.

Do you know, I have had the feeling that the tweed argyll has been misunderstood by quite a lot of members almost since the day I joined here in 2007, I am sorry I should have mentioned it rather more succinctly much earlier.

[Lyle1]

I can't quite understand your(plural) reluctance to wear an "old style" cuff on your jacket when you are standing out in the crowd by wearing the kilt in the first place and considering that the style(more or less) of kilt you are wearing is some two hundred years old, I can't quite follow the logic of that. But, each to their own.

"Old style" is a good choice of words. I have a vintage tweed jacket with gauntlet cuffs. I like it very much, but I am not completely comfortable when I am wearing it. I guess I do feel a bit like I am wearing a costume or relic from days long past, a very nice costume, but a costume all the same. It reminds me somewhat of the pseudo Edwardian look that was popular with young people (including me) in the 1960's.

The kilt, however, does not feel like a costume. For me, the kilt wears like a classic piece of clothing that is a contemporary now as it was 200 years ago. If I was to argue that point, I would use the hundreds of photographs posted to this forum showing the kilt being worn for many activities with many different styles of clothing.

For formal wear, I chose a very sleek jacket with plain cuffs (not even buttons) and very contemporary lines. When I wear it with a kilt, I feel very comfortable with my choice.

I am not saying that the gauntlet cuffs on a well made jacket do not look good. I am only saying that they are a style element that is not my first choice for personal wear.

[piperdown]

Timely post...as an owner of a PC and black argyll, I have always wanted a classic "daywear" jacket. I pulled the plug last week and ordered a tweed argyll and vest and look forward to it's arrival and use.

[Whidbey78]

For formal wear, I chose a very sleek jacket with plain cuffs (not even buttons) and very contemporary lines. When I wear it with a kilt, I feel very comfortable with my choice.

I am not saying that the gauntlet cuffs on a well made jacket do not look good. I am only saying that they are a style element that is not my first choice for personal wear.

I feel the same way.

While I am a fan of the surgeon's cuff, both for looks and function, I'm not a fan of buttons with no purpose. I have several jackets with three or four buttons on the cuff--strictly ornamental--and have only left them in place because sometimes there is minor damage left where the thread was removed. Better to have a pointless button than a hole where the button should be, though I'd rather have neither.

The simplest way I could put it is that I just see no point in creating the illusion of a functional cuff, a breast pocket(I have a jacket with a "fake" pocket and hate that part), a lapel button hole, etc. It's better to have the real thing or nothing at all.

There has been a shift toward simplified styling in contemporary suits over the past few years, with buttonless cuffs, no pockets, basically nothing without a purpose, and I'm glad to see it. It has begun to filter into kilt jackets as well, but the ones I have found are bespoke and out of my price range at present. I seriously doubt the contemporary modern styles will ever replace the traditional styles, and that is a good thing too. There should be room for both schools of thought. The traditional styles are by no means bad, or even outdated--timeless would be my choice of words--it's just not for me in most cases. I like to keep it in the traditional spirit, but with a contemporary "feel."

Do you know, I have had the feeling that the tweed argyll has been misunderstood by quite a lot of members almost since the day I joined here in 2007, I am sorry I should have mentioned it rather more succinctly much earlier.

No need to apologize, Sir. This time around the discussion was such that it all came together well, and at least three of us (Me, Myself and I) were enlightened. The conditions just have to be right sometimes. My head, like mud, has to drop below a certain level of hardness before things sink in

[Tobus]

Very interesting thread. Personally, I love the Argyll jacket's gauntlet cuffs, and don't think they look costumish. They just look... Scottish. It seems to match the overall style of the jacket, and give it a bit of flair. It's a carryover from a previous style, but so is the kilt itself. Jock Scot makes an excellent point that it doesn't make much sense to wear the really obviously 'different' garment, which is the kilt itself, and then try to modernize or tone down the jacket because it's not in style with everyone who is wearing trousers.

Certainly I can understand not wanting to look costumish. I mean, most of us don't want to walk around and having people identify us with this:



(note the cuffs on his coat)

I could be wrong, but I don't think the average American is going to see the cuffs of an Argyll jacket and immediately go to that level of absurdity in their visual reference. Especially not on a kilt-cut tweed jacket with antler buttons.

I only have two tweed kilt jackets, and both were conversions. One of them has pseudo-Argyll cuffs, as well as braided epaulets, done during the conversion. And I find myself wanting to wear that jacket over the plain one. Why? Because the plain one feels like I'm wearing boring old Saxon attire.

I was planning on buying a "real" Argyll tweed jacket and matching waistcoat when funds allow. But seeing Steve's awesome combination below, I may have to reconsider! That looks wonderful. The jacket has cuffs and epaulets, in a nice patterned tweed, with a waistcoat that complements it (without "matching" it exactly). Very nicely done, and I'm inspired!

[Jack Daw]

Do you know, I have had the feeling that the tweed argyll has been misunderstood by quite a lot of members almost since the day I joined here in 2007, I am sorry I should have mentioned it rather more succinctly much earlier.

I very much appreciate your contributions, despite my occasional teasing. I've been tempted to wear unmatching hose, but I wouldn't want to reach the level of annoying.