wearing other family tartan rather than your own

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

In the case of the MacMillans, the clan's hereditary chief is still active even though now in his eighties, I believe. I think that had you written to him he might well have passed your enquiry on to the association that has been formed from the clan. That is true for many chiefs and clans, but for even more there is no structure for them to fall back on even if they want to.

Those writing to my chief, George Macmillan of Macmillan and Knap, will almost always receive a reply from him. Although nudging 80 (perhaps from the other side!) he is still very much a "hands on" leader of our clan.

[Moski]

Lets see if i can coagulate some of this.
The supermajority of the "Clan Tartans" started out as pretty much fashion tartans, meaning that people generally wore whatever tartans the local weavers produced as it struck their fancy. And kilts were common clothing, not fancy dress costume with "Rules" attached.

At one point in history people started writing books about the Clan Tartans, naming tartans, inventing tartans (and even connections) and beginning to associate certain tartans with Non-Millitary uses. Clan Chiefs did not own these for the greater part, as they do not now. And People still wore kilts as clothing, not fancy dress costume with "Rules" attached.

Over the years certain names have been associated with particular tartans, Some approved as official by chiefs, some not. Neither were owned by those Chiefs (mostly), they were only expressing what they accepted as an emblem of their Clan, not ever declaring ownership. Which may explain why, with the very rare exception, no one can find where a Chief has restricted wear to members only. (requests to refrain not withstanding). And People still wore kilts as clothing, not fancy dress costume with "Rules" attached

The idea of respecting Scottish heritage is in all things admirable. The idea of another invention of governing rules to cover something the Primus has not addressed and calling into question the reason, respect, and ethics(?) of a person who does not follow this made up rule is itselt unreasonable.

If you are not comfortable wearing a clan you are not associated with then I suggest you don't. Extending the Clan Chief the courtesy of asking his blessing, not permission, to wear "his" clans tartan and, recieving no reply, you proceed to do so is not an offense. He had no authority to deny you in the first place. YOU were just being very nice and polite. You have fulfilled your end of the social contract.

As an American with, excluding the whole slavery thing, a convoluted family history at best, family associations will be multiple and tenuous. I also have a problem with the idea that my daughter must needs ignore that her great grandmother was McGowan, 1st gen American, since it's not her fathers line. Or the Millers, Parks, Colemans, and Mahatthies(Mahaddie)... gets interesting. Most of us don't come from such close lines as they did over there.

Be respectful of the culture, understanding that, as with many things, we are going to keep it alive, which means growth and some change. I would suggest that tartan use may be coming full circle. With the modern understanding of it's origins were seeing a bit of "whatever the 'local weaver/kiltmaker' produced and struck the wearers fancy".

And guess what? People still wore kilts as clothing, not fancy dress costume with "Rules" attached

[OC Richard]

I can't understand why anyone would want to abscond with a name tartan to which they have no right whatsoever.

If the name tartan was devised specifically for the use of a particular family, I fully agree. It wouldn't feel right to wear a tartan designed for a family's personal use.

But most of our name tartans aren't like that. Most began life as anonymous patterns and were assigned to clans by the weavers or absconded by the clans themselves as the Royal Visit approached. Many others were designed by a pair of mental Englishmen and were bestowed upon various clans as part of a deliberate hoax. I myself don't regard such tartans as genuine clan tartans, given their origin and original purpose.

About wearing of tartans that aren't ones own by Scots, I noticed when looking though the programme of the 1986 World Pipe Band Championships that a large number of Scottish bands were wearing MacLean of Duart at that time, meaning that on that day there were hundreds of people milling about in MacLean kilts, possibly none of them MacLeans. Did each and every band get permission to wear that tartan I wonder.

The recent trend in the Pipe Band world is to move away from clan tartans and towards fashion tartans and bespoke tartans, but in the "old days" nearly all pipe bands wore clan or regimental tartans.

[macwilkin]

But most of our name tartans aren't like that. Most began life as anonymous patterns and were assigned to clans by the weavers or absconded by the clans themselves as the Royal Visit approached. Many others were designed by a pair of mental Englishmen and were bestowed upon various clans as part of a deliberate hoax. I myself don't regard such tartans as genuine clan tartans, given their origin and original purpose.

If the Chief of the Clan recognizes them, then they are "genuine", regardless of their origins.

T.

[BoldHighlander]

If the Chief of the Clan recognizes them, then they are "genuine", regardless of their origins.

T.

***
Indeed! My thoughts exactly.

[Zardoz]

Many others were designed by a pair of mental Englishmen and were bestowed upon various clans as part of a deliberate hoax. I myself don't regard such tartans as genuine clan tartans, given their origin and original purpose.

I wouldn't class the Allen brothers as 'mental' in any way, I think you have to have your wits about you to run a long con like they did. The marks are still lining up 150 years later!

[macwilkin]

I wouldn't class the Allen brothers as 'mental' in any way, I think you have to have your wits about you to run a long con like they did. The marks are still lining up 150 years later!

Matt has an excellent article about the Hay-Allens and their tartans. His arguement is that many of their tartans were "new" tartans, which aren't necessarily "fraudulent" themselves -- the story behind them was the fraud perpetuated by the brothers. Many of the tartans themselves are now recognized by Chiefs, which really makes the whole claim that they are not "genuine" a moot one.

T.

[Mike_Oettle]

Todd wrote (and Terry agreed): “If the Chief of the Clan recognizes them, then they are ‘genuine’, regardless of their origins.”

My sentiment, too. And, for those who might be interested, I received a letter this afternoon, with a stamp bearing the Queen’s head and posted from Colinsburgh, Fife, which read, in part:

“Thank you for your letter . . . in which you . . . ask . . . my permission for you to wear the Lindsay tartan. . . . it seems to me that anyone who is seriously proud of his Lindsay – or Fotheringham – ancestry should be able to wear the Lindsay tartan. In any case I am happy to give my permission.”

It is signed “Robin Crawford” – Robin clearly being a nickname and Crawford his primary title, since he is Robert Lindsay, Earl of Crawford and Balcarres.
So it’s official: even though I could have worn the tartan without permission, such permission has been asked (following proper form) and granted.
I am thrilled!
Regards,
Mike

[Jock Scot]

I like that Mike, I like that a lot. I like the fact that you asked and I like the fact that you had a satisfactory reply AND I like the fact that you are "thrilled".

[Teufel Hunden]

Great thread everyone!

I'm of the camp that doesn't usually stray from associated tartans. It never really crossed my mind to wear a different one than my chosen MacDonald of the Isles Hunting, just as displaying a different family coat of arms in my home hasn't. But, I see nothing wrong with wearing a different tartan, as many others in the thread have agreed.

I also agree with McClef, as if it were a big issue, it would come up in some official channels and not just amongst the kilted rabble. At the very least it might appear in the FAQ section of some Clan websites. I think intent and respect win the day in all cases of wearing a tartan not your own.