Cochineal Dyes?

[Bugbear]

I know I could cultivate the indigo plants and cochineal bugs... not so sure about milking snails...

[piperdbh]

I know I could cultivate the indigo plants and cochineal bugs... not so sure about milking snails...

Indigo was a major cash crop in my corner of the world, although I don't know if any is still grown here commercially. I don't believe you get quite enough rain to make it thrive.

[Bugbear]

Indigo was a major cash crop in my corner of the world, although I don't know if any is still grown here commercially. I don't believe you get quite enough rain to make it thrive.

It can be grown here from indigo plants indigenous to the Southwest, and thanks to the irrigation from ancient Hohokam canals... Or at least their concept.

The main thing is getting them through the one or two frosts we usually have in the winter.

I plan on growing indigenous cotton too, just in small amounts.

[piperdbh]

I plan on growing indigenous cotton too, just in small amounts.

Try growing some of the cotton which bioengineers have "infected" with a mutation which makes the cotton grow blue. You wouldn't have to grow the indigo!

[Bugbear]

The problem with that is they would have to coordinate the cotton growers and fashion industry as to what color will be in style for the upcoming years. I don't think the fashion industry would put up with that, and you would develop a huge surplus of the "wrong" colors of cotton very quickly. Plus I'm sure there is an owner of the patent on those genotypes.

I don't have a problem with gene splicing, nature has been doing it for eons, I consider humans to be completely and one-hundred percent a part of nature by the way. I see nothing wrong with growing fibers that are in the public domain, though, having been developed over hundreds of generations of people selecting and replanting the plants they found useful or favorable.

I don't have to grow no Smurf cotton!
* Sorry, piperdbh, got carried away. *
Which reminds me I need to look into pomegranate as a dye now that I have a pomegranate tree.

[OftKilted]

I had to email my sister because I didn't remember. Christmas 2008 I flew down to Cali, the airline lost my luggage, I was two weeks in California with my carry on. I bought some plain white tshirts, my sister the textile wizard had some cochineal bugs, and we got to work.

We used a grinder with a vertical plunger to grind up the bugs. I can't remember if I got mine at Williams Sonoma or Sur le table, neither are showing the unit as current product. Check Target for salt/ pepper mills before you buy.

With the the ground bugs in the bottom of a stock pot with 2 inches of water we brought the dye to a simmer and submerged one of my new plain white shirts for 20 minutes or so.

Two years later (100% cotton) it looks like this. It was never "red" or "purple", but once upon a time it was pretty dark for pink.

That is unusual if you are using a mordant before the dying ... what mordant did you use? You typically heat the mordant and cloth in solution of just below boiling (~200 degrees F) for about an hour and then let it cool. And THEN do the dying.

Aurorasilk.com goes over the process here : Dying Process

It typically gives a beautiful scarlet color that lasts forever when processed with an Alum mordant.

[Bugbear]

Guess I should look into mordants, too. Thanks for the links.

Looks like there is also Brazil wood chip dye which was historically traded up into this area, but also became a big hit in Europe. Not sure if that was ever used on kilts.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to accept something though.

The Scots used cochineal bug dyes on their wool for kilts and are therefore connected to the bug that is connected to the cacti I grow, and that has been traditionally grown here for the bugs back into the deep past, but it is a one-way connection.

Just because I grow the cacti doesn't mean I have a connection to Scotland. Same goes with the sour oranges.

Guess that fell flat on it's face...

Splat!

[Bugbear]

Ok * sigh * my question got lost or ignored over in the white hose thread.

Were cochineal dyes used to make the rusty, red-brown colors sometimes seen on tartans "back in the day"?
Or was that color created or due to some other dye or process?

[piperdbh]

Some other process. Cochineal makes red-red.*



*Red-Red is a name of a Wilton brand gel color used for cakes and stuff. It tastes bitter, so Wilton developed No-Taste Red, which is not bitter.

[Bugbear]

Thanks, piperdbh.

I'm considering starting a new thread to determine what dyes would have been used, historically, to create the colors of my kilt, and hose.

Not sure it would be a good idea though...
It's not a historical kilt...