Fake Scots Titles

[Detroitpete]

Yes -- fraternal titles should only be used in in conjunction with that particular organization. To the "profane", some fraternal titles may seem silly, but rest assured, there are reasons and symbolism behind him.

Although this American has no issue with genuine titles that are rightly bestowed. We could do with a lot more tradition, INMHO. George Washington, for example, saw nothing wrong with heraldry and the American Republic, and frequently displayed his personal arms on everything from his table service to his coach.

T.

At the same time, there is no law or mandate that states that the 'profane' need to accept or even consider these titles, regardless of thier reasons or symbolism. I appreciate heraldry, but as someone who lives in a country with no peerage, I most likely do not give them the importance as some others might.

Yes George Washington is said to have enjoyed heraldry.
Several of our important civilian and military learders have and most likely, still do enjoy the art and science of heraldry. Even Ronald Reagan's interesting path to arms is an example--however, this does not change my thinking with regard to peerage titles, and military titles (outside of active service) used in the US. It does inform my understanding and thank you for that.

To think that someone would actually PAY for a peerage title...
To think that one feels the need to add a title to their name that was not given them...
To think that in the US, one might actually expect other citizens to accept and defer to such a peerage title?

Complete self engrandisement----just my opinion.

[macwilkin]

At the same time, there is no law or mandate that states that the 'profane' need to accept or even consider these titles, regardless of thier reasons or symbolism. I appreciate heraldry, but as someone who lives in a country with no peerage, I most likely do not give them the importance as some others might.

Ah, but you truly believe America has no "peerage", then I have some ocean-front property in Arizona you might be interested in.

We have an an aristocracy since the Revolution. It is not well known that both Washington & Adams actually demanded citizens refer to them as "Your Excellency".

Yes George Washington is said to have enjoyed heraldry.
Several of our important civilian and military learders have and most likely, still do enjoy the art and science of heraldry. Even Ronald Reagan's interesting path to arms is an example--however, this does not change my thinking with regard to peerage titles, and military titles (outside of active service) used in the US. It does inform my understanding and thank you for that.

To think that someone would actually PAY for a peerage title...
To think that one feels the need to add a title to their name that was not given them...
To think that in the US, one might actually expect other citizens to accept and defer to such a peerage title?

Complete self engrandisement----just my opinion.

And btw, the word "profane" in this instance is not pejorative, but refers to those who are not members of fraternal organizations such as Freemasonry.

And as far as fraternal titles go, the highest one can achieve in the fraternity that my family has belong to since before immigrating from Scotland is simply "Brother", the same one born by Washington AND Robert Burns. Not self-engrandisement at all.

Horses for courses...

T.

[Dale Seago]

To think that someone would actually PAY for a peerage title...
To think that one feels the need to add a title to their name that was not given them...
To think that in the US, one might actually expect other citizens to accept and defer to such a peerage title?

Complete self engrandisement----just my opinion.

Just want to point out that we have a Baron on this forum who purchased his title, and whom I've known for decades. We first met during the Vietnam war when we were in different branches of American military service, he being in the Army and I being a Marine. I later fell to the Dark Side and got an Army commission, and at one point we ended up serving as officers in the same unit for several years.

Anyway, I can state unequivocally that most of the above description does not apply to him. The Barony was originally associated with his clan. He's passionate about it, and uses the name and his personal funds to support sanctuaries and other conservation efforts for endangered and exploited animals. He is a person of all-too-rare integrity who gives, materially, far more than anything he gets in prestige from being a Scottish Baron.

[Sketraw]

Just want to point out that we have a Baron on this forum who purchased his title, and whom I've known for decades. We first met during the Vietnam war when we were in different branches of American military service, he being in the Army and I being a Marine. I later fell to the Dark Side and got an Army commission, and at one point we ended up serving as officers in the same unit for several years.

Anyway, I can state unequivocally that most of the above description does not apply to him. The Barony was originally associated with his clan. He's passionate about it, and uses the name and his personal funds to support sanctuaries and other conservation efforts for endangered and exploited animals. He is a person of all-too-rare integrity who gives, materially, far more than anything he gets in prestige from being a Scottish Baron.

I dont think we even mentioned the purchase of Scottish Feudal Baronies which can indeed be purchased, if you have a spare £50,000 + and is the only title that can be, although since the abolition of feudal tenure in 2004 they are no longer attached to the land and no longer listed in the Land Registry of Scotland.

[Dale Seago]

I dont think we even mentioned the purchase of Scottish Feudal Baronies which can indeed be purchased. . .

Actually I believe this WAS mentioned earlier in the thread.

. . .if you have a spare £50,000 + and is the only title that can be. . .

Yes. Though from what I gather just having the money may be a necessary, but not in itself sufficient, qualification.

. . .although since the abolition of feudal tenure in 2004 they are no longer attached to the land and no longer listed in the Land Registry of Scotland.

Quite correct, though at least the title is heritable.

(EDIT: Thought I remembered it being mentioned:

I fear the decision to allow the legal sale of feudal baronies has only made the sale of fake titles are the more easy to perpetrate on innocents.

)