Open Fronted Doublets

[MacLowlife]

Thanks, C McG,

You may want to check out the offerings over at MINISTRY OF TARTAN. I have never dealt with them, but I like to look. The frustration is that so many of their jackets aren't yet pictured, but their prices seem reasonable. I think I would find a tailcoat and start chopping before I paid Skye to make me a Laird's jacket. I am a devoted fan of SHO, but that just looks too easy- and I think they left a little too much on the tails. A really clever tailor could even turn some of that tail length into a set of tashes for the front. Charles Thompson shows how top make a PC from a tailcoat. I expect a Regulation is within reach of a good copyist. These days, there are several styles of tailcoats floating around and you might find just the thing on the rental return racks.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

When I moved back to the USA I had a dress Argyll and three evening doublets: a Sheriffmuir; a Regulation Doublet; and a Prince Charlie coatee. The PC was waaaay to small and was recycled to a good friend; the Sheriffmuir was also a bit snug, and was passed on to a fellow X-Marker (also a good friend). I replaced the Regulation Doublet with another from MacKenzie Frain and will up grade my dress Argyll jacket in the not too distant future.

It has been my experience that Sheriffmuirs are the least practical in terms of both cost and comfort. In my opinion, a Regulation Doublet is the best choice, followed closely by a dress Argyll jacket with grosgrain gauntlet cuffs, grosgrain lapels, and black velvet collar. The RD is more versatile as it can be worn with black or white tie; a dress Argyll -- even if tricked out with silk cuffs and lapels-- is really only suitable for black tie.

Because my jackets are "made to measure" they are comfortable and fit well. In all probability the Argyll is the slightly more practical, and slightly less expensive. If I could only own one evening jacket, it would be an Argyll.

Hope that helps!

[Jack Daw]

I'm glad to see this thread. As much as I appreciate my pc, I could stand a bit of variety and like the notion of a regulation doublet so that I would have the versatlity of black- and white-tie dress.

[CMcG]

Thanks, C McG,

You may want to check out the offerings over at MINISTRY OF TARTAN. I have never dealt with them, but I like to look. The frustration is that so many of their jackets aren't yet pictured, but their prices seem reasonable. I think I would find a tailcoat and start chopping before I paid Skye to make me a Laird's jacket. I am a devoted fan of SHO, but that just looks too easy- and I think they left a little too much on the tails. A really clever tailor could even turn some of that tail length into a set of tashes for the front. Charles Thompson shows how top make a PC from a tailcoat. I expect a Regulation is within reach of a good copyist. These days, there are several styles of tailcoats floating around and you might find just the thing on the rental return racks.

I've been watching the Ministry of Tartan but no luck there yet. I also found a place called "PIOB MHOR of SCOTLAND" who have some used Sheriffmuirs. Has anyone ever dealt with them?

I'm also gently considering a conversion project. I've heard of people doing a nehru tux jacket to something Sheriffmuir-esque and now MacLL has mentioned a tailcoat to Regulation. The problem is, I haven't been too impressed with most of the tailcoat to PC or sportscoat to daywear kilt jacket conversions I've seen...

The best bet seems to be jazzing up a jacket that doesn't require much conversion. Something like Zardoz's short tux jacket with shiny celtic buttons. There has been a trend in fashion this year for military-style jackets and I've seen a couple that look rather like a Sheriffmuir... if I could find one in a nice material, that was sufficiently short waisted with a bit of cut-away, maybe swap in some of those chrome kilt jacket buttons...

<snip>
It has been my experience that Sheriffmuirs are the least practical in terms of both cost and comfort.
<snip>
In all probability the Argyll is the slightly more practical, and slightly less expensive. If I could only own one evening jacket, it would be an Argyll.

Hope that helps!

Why is it that Sheriffmuirs are the least practical in terms of both cost and comfort?

At the moment, I use a Braemar (like a black Argyll but with mariner cuffs) for my only evening jacket. It is as versatile as MoR says, but am looking for something more formal...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Why is it that Sheriffmuirs are the least practical in terms of both cost and comfort?

To really fit well a Sheriffmuir needs to be made to measure, or better yet, totally bespoke, and this drives the cost up, well beyond what most people are willing (or able) to pay for a jacket that will see only occasional wear. The reason for the cost is that these jackets require skillful tailoring, and quite a bit of it. The waistcoat buttons all the way to the neck and must be shaped to the contours of the wearer's body or it won't lay flat across the chest and stomach; The same is true of the jacket, which also closes at the throat; not only does that measurement have to be accurate, the fit across the back and shoulders is critical as the jacket curves gently open as it falls across the chest to the waist-- again following the contours of the wearer's body. When all of this is taken into consideration, plus the cost of the fabric and buttons, it's easy to see why a well-fitting, bespoke Sheriffmuir and waistcoat can cost well over GBP 1,000.

When Burns said, "Ye canna be both grand and comfortable" he was quite possibly referring to wearing a Sheriffmuir on a warm evening.

As far as comfort goes, even if the Sheriffmuir is made to fit the wearer (as opposed to being bought off the peg) it is not the most comfortable jacket in a warm room, especially if engaging in a strenuous activity like eating or dancing... When I would wear my Sheriffmuir I wore (1) a tee-shrit under (2) a dress shirt with (3) a detachable (not wing) collar, around which went (4) the band of the jabot; over this went (5) a silk waistcoat (with, as I recall, eight buttons) that buttoned all the way to my throat. My jacket (6) then went on and, it too, buttoned at the throat. Oh, and I almost forgot; the jacket had (7) a removable "patrol collar" that attached to the inside of the velvet collar to protect it from rubbing on my neck, as well as (8 & 9) detachable lace cuffs at the end of each sleeve..

Thus swaddled one may look like a million bucks, but if the room is the least bit warm one is in danger of sweating like a Turk stoking the boiler on the Orient Express!

At the moment, I use a Braemar (like a black Argyll but with mariner cuffs) for my only evening jacket. It is as versatile as MoR says, but am looking for something more formal...

Well, I'll make two, no... three, suggestions: Go with a made to measure Regulation Doublet, but insist that it have three buttons on the right and three button holes on the left (as with an ordinary suit coat). Six buttons up the front, as seen on Prince Charile coatees, is just plain wrong, so don't do it. If that's not quite what you're looking for, then go for an Argyll jacket with gauntlet cuffs. You can have the bodice and sleeves done up in tartan (on the bias) or velvet if you want something other than black barathea. Whatever you choose, insist that the cuffs and lapels are done in either corded or grosgrain silk (avoid a satin finish) and that the collar is done in black velvet.

To further difference your "formal day wear" jacket from your "formal evening wear jacket" you might want to consider replacing the buttons on your day wear jacket with either cloth covered buttons, or with black, faceted "jett" buttons. These are not expensive, and are readily available at most fabric shops.

In my opinion a velvet or tartan dress Argyll jacket not only looks grand, it is the most comfortable evening jacket going.

Maybe Burn's wasn't right after all when he said, "Ye canna be both grand and comfotable..."

[MacBean]

Still can't get that danged image posting thing down, ...

You almost have it right. Instead of hitting the link button (the blue globe), you have to hit the yellow square with mountain icon. That brackets the link with IMG tags so that they are displayed inline. Easy when you know how.

First time I've seen pictures of you, and very fine you are looking! And while I'm at it, thanks again for posting the eBay link to the regulation doublet. I'm in your debt.

[CMcG]

To really fit well a Sheriffmuir needs to be made to measure... <snip>

Thus swaddled one may look like a million bucks, but if the room is the least bit warm one is in danger of sweating like a Turk stoking the boiler on the Orient Express!

<snip> If that's not quite what you're looking for, then go for an Argyll jacket with gauntlet cuffs. You can have the bodice and sleeves done up in tartan (on the bias) or velvet if you want something other than black barathea. Whatever you choose, insist that the cuffs and lapels are done in either corded or grosgrain silk (avoid a satin finish) and that the collar is done in black velvet.


In my opinion a velvet or tartan dress Argyll jacket not only looks grand, it is the most comfortable evening jacket going.

Maybe Burn's wasn't right after all when he said, "Ye canna be both grand and comfotable..."

These are some very interesting suggestions in regards to a tricked out Argyll, which seems like they would elevate the formality of the jacket quite neatly. I did a brief image search and couldn't find any examples. Does anyone have pictures of an Argyll thus enhanced?

[MacLowlife]

You are very kind, MacBean,

I just scored a two tone (blue w/black facings) Regulation doublet, myself, and am eager to see it and discuss it further, but first I must pay the piper and the postman, too.

CmcG, I have looked at a lot of tailcoats on eBay and I worry that you'd have to look at a lot more to find one that is a) the right size, b) made of wool, and c) cut the way MoR describes- with a single breasted closure. I expect it would be simpler to go to the tux shop and inspect the rental return stock firsthand. I am sure they are out there. I do think that I'd start with a tailcoat to make just about any kind of adapted doublet. If you are lucky, you can find one that is cut in such a way as to make adding the skirts on the front simple. I expect the fabric in the tails should be plenty to make them and any sleeve treatments you may want to make. I certainly like MoR's ideas, whether you "do it right" and bespeak the thing or cheat a little by remaking an existing garment.

One other idea I'd consider- look at and fondle as many jackets as you can- take a lot of pictures if you are able. If you are going to rely on a helpful sewing person other than yourself, be sure to make them as familiar as possible with all of the arcana of tashes, too. You might even find it worthwhile to pick up a doublet that is inexpensive, but not your size- even a piper's tunic, just to see how they are constructed.

[JSFMACLJR]

These are some very interesting suggestions in regards to a tricked out Argyll, which seems like they would elevate the formality of the jacket quite neatly. I did a brief image search and couldn't find any examples. Does anyone have pictures of an Argyll thus enhanced?

I wear a tartan Argyll jacket, with a few bits of velvet thrown in for good measure.

[SlackerDrummer]

What Sandy didn't tell you is that he beat up a mannequin to get it.