Bonnets on or off?

**Jordan** · 24th March 11, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Geoff Withnell

Actually, a yarmulka (skullcap) is just a minimum hat - if you were wearing anything less you would be bare-headed. a bonnet is perfectly acceptable in a synagogue, and in fact at Orthodox synagogues it is not at all unusual to see men in fedoras, etc. I strongly object to some of the language on this thread. There are different customs in different groups. If I were to go bare headed in your home, by my rules I would be commiting a serious insult. Edit for clarity - If you asked me to take off my hat, I of course would - it's your home. But it just would not occur to me to do so. I wear a hat just about every where but to bed and in the shower.

Sorry my friend I had no intention to offend you or anyone else, my only experience with a synagogue is what I have seen on tv.

**RussellSm** · 24th March 11, 06:22 AM

Absolutely not! A Gentleman never wears a cover in a church. Furthermore, I have been playing in a pipe band for more than thirty-five years and have played in more church services than I can count, we never wore bonnets inside a sanctuary. As for "under arms", this pertains to military detachments that are on official duty (i.e. Color Guards).

**Fitzy** · 24th March 11, 04:19 PM

I was raised Roman Catholic, but have been to services and weddings in Epicopal, Methodist, United Methodist, and UCC churches. I've never seen anyone wearing a hat past the door.

".............As for "under arms", this pertains to military detachments that are on official duty (i.e. Color Guards). "

And anyone in the mess hall stuck on KP !

Paul

**Dixiecat** · 25th March 11, 07:38 AM

I've been getting a giggle out of this thread. One simple question. Awesome.

Someone said that they were unsure of the 'rules' that (pun alert!) covered hats worn by ladies.
Check out this link: http://www.suite101.com/content/how-...arties-a230451

While the link has info not really pertinent to your discussion, other than as a side note, there's some very good advice found in the last section on Hat Manners. I think this is an occasion where 'woman' can be substituted with 'man' without harm:

However, any woman with good breeding will know that it would be a horrible breach of manners to:
Cause anyone discomfort by making a big deal out of something as silly as the “correctness” of one's chapeau.

**Lallans** · 25th March 11, 12:22 PM

The Canadian Legion has the interesting custom of forbidding the wearing of hats indoors on their premises. This is a rule intended to signify respect for people killed in battle. I actually don't know how it applied to observant Jews, but there was a huge cultural battle when Sikhs moved to Canada in numbers and wanted memberships based on their British war service. In the end, PC won out and they are allowed to keep their turbans on. The no-hat rule is enforced through a bylaw stating that anyone who is inside with a hat on has to buy a round of drinks for everyone present, so the consequences would be pretty drastic if the establishment is crowded. I actually slipped up myself by putting my Balmoral for 1/1000th of a second one Remembrance Day a few years back (I was trying to free my hands), but either no one noticed or everyone pretended not to notice. I'm not a Legion member but I would not have wanted about 450 octogenarian Vets and their kin coming after me for free drinks.

**macwilkin** · 25th March 11, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Canuck of NI

The Canadian Legion has the interesting custom of forbidding the wearing of hats indoors on their premises. This is a rule intended to signify respect for people killed in battle. I actually don't know how it applied to observant Jews, but there was a huge cultural battle when Sikhs moved to Canada in numbers and wanted memberships based on their British war service. In the end, PC won out and they are allowed to keep their turbans on. The no-hat rule is enforced through a bylaw stating that anyone who is inside with a hat on has to buy a round of drinks for everyone present, so the consequences would be pretty drastic if the establishment is crowded. I actually slipped up myself by putting my Balmoral for 1/1000th of a second one Remembrance Day a few years back (I was trying to free my hands), but either no one noticed or everyone pretended not to notice. I'm not a Legion member but I would not have wanted about 450 octogenarian Vets and their kin coming after me for free drinks.

While I am no fan of "PC" by any means, in this instance, I feel the Sikhs are in their rights from a religious freedom standpoint, as well as their long & storied history of service with the British Indian Army. BTW, there was a Punjabi and Rajput regiment that fought alongside the Winnepeg Grenadiers and the Royal Rifles of Canada at Hong Kong in 1941; one would hope that the beliefs of comrades-in-arms would be respected.

T.

**ThistleDown** · 25th March 11, 12:46 PM

It is and was, Todd. The reasons for permitting turbans in the Legion were two and neither had to do with political correctness: religious consideration to match the same consideration already on the books for observant jews, and simple respect for the manner in which headwear is treated in the forces of other Commonwealth countries.

**macwilkin** · 25th March 11, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by ThistleDown

It is and was, Todd. The reasons for permitting turbans in the Legion were two and neither had to do with political correctness: religious consideration to match the same consideration already on the books for observant jews, and simple respect for the manner in which headwear is treated in the forces of other Commonwealth countries.

Rex,

Grand! My grandfather, who served in India & China during the Second World War, came away with a great respect for Sikhs and their fighting ability. As you well know, there is a long-standing bond of friendship between the Sikhs, Johnny Gurkha and the Jocks.

T.

**Lallans** · 25th March 11, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

While I am no fan of "PC" by any means, in this instance, I feel the Sikhs are in their rights from a religious freedom standpoint, as well as their long & storied history of service with the British Indian Army. BTW, there was a Punjabi and Rajput regiment that fought alongside the Winnepeg Grenadiers and the Royal Rifles of Canada at Hong Kong in 1941; one would hope that the beliefs of comrades-in-arms would be respected.

T.

I and 'most everyone in Canada would agree about the Sikhs, but a lot of Legions are small town establishments where custom would have won out over accomodation to newcomers in older days. As it was, many a media battle was fought on the turban issue I assure you.

**ThistleDown** · 28th March 11, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Canuck of NI

I and 'most everyone in Canada would agree about the Sikhs, but a lot of Legions are small town establishments where custom would have won out over accomodation to newcomers in older days. As it was, many a media battle was fought on the turban issue I assure you.

Yes, 'most everyone these days with the vastly improved respect Canucks have for their peacekeepers and peacemakers. But you are right, NI, that in the days of yore with snears to the fore, it was often the wee-lads branches that led the way.

Speaking of bonnets indoor....