Help identify this crest

[Cygnus]

Like I said...I'm no expert. The web is a dangerous place...

I apologize, azwildcat96, I didn't intend for that response to be as "snippy" as it was, I should have been more tactful in my correction.

I always liked this definition of expert...(not a reference to you)

"Someone who knows more and more about less and less until they eventually know everything about nothing"

Though I definitely consider myself an amateur when it comes to heraldry, maybe someday I'll finally know everything about nothing!

[Really a McQueen]

Based on the description in Fairbairn, we may have a winner. Too bad the link provided doesn't show the plate referenced. But the description of a wolf's head couped, with that motto sure looks like a match.

Wish I could use Mr. Peabody's wayback machine to talk with g2-granddad, and ask him which symbol he most aligned himself with. But I bet you that he'd just point to the sign for the local pub, and wink.

[madmacs]

MoR may have the hard copy version...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

MoR may have the hard copy version...

MoR doesn't have a scanner...

[Really a McQueen]

It turns out that the local public library has a copy of Fairbain (1968 edition) in their reference section.

To recap, one of the crest descriptions from Fairbain read: M'Queen, Sco. A wolf's head couped, ppr. Virtus in arduis pl.8, cr.4.

Now the crest badge has already been posted. And following the references in the description I found an illustration of a wolf's head, couped. Putting the two side by side, I believe we have a definite match.

Thanks to all who contributed their knowledge to this quest. I will continue to wear this cap badge in the knowledge that it is connected to the family is some way. Now if I can just find out which branch of the family used it. With my luck, it will turn out to be that famed jurist that apparently no MacQueen wants to lay claim to.

[Cygnus]

I'm a bit curious to know why nobody has mentioned that there is a difference between the description in Fairbain and the crest on the badge (aside from only one being gorged).

The reference says it is a "wolf's head couped" and shows one, while the badge is a wolf's head erased.

I apologize for the poor quality of these images, but they illustrate the difference between the two (using boars' heads in this case):

Couped

The head is cut off cleanly in a straight line.

Erased

The head appears to have been torn away.

Is this an important distinction?

[ThistleDown]

Yes, there is a significant difference, but the intricacies of that I will leave to our resident heraldic experts, Rathdown predominant among them. In the meanwhile, using the stag as an example instead of your wolf:

a stag's head erased (also called couped):


and a stag's head caboshed:



But on a more familial note, be cautious if you are attaching yourself to the wolf`s head as different from other crests to be found among the Macqueens. The wolf belongs to a particular -- and very small sept -- of the Macqueens of the Clanchattan resident at the upper end of Strathdearn. Unless you are claiming descendancy of that family, or are acknowledging some degree of dependancy on them, you might want to look to the broader Macsweens and Macqueens of the Western seaboard.

Cheers, Rex

[SlackerDrummer]

Yes, there is a significant difference, but the intricacies of that I will leave to our resident heraldic experts, Rathdown predominant among them. In the meanwhile, using the stag as an example instead of your wolf:

a stag's head erased (also called couped):


and a stag's head caboshed:



But on a more familial note, be cautious if you are attaching yourself to the wolf`s head as different from other crests to be found among the Macqueens. The wolf belongs to a particular -- and very small sept -- of the Macqueens of the Clanchattan resident at the upper end of Strathdearn. Unless you are claiming descendancy of that family, or are acknowledging some degree of dependancy on them, you might want to look to the broader Macsweens and Macqueens of the Western seaboard.

Cheers, Rex

Erased is when the head or limb has a jagged edge as if forcibly removed. Couped is when the head or limb has a straight edge as if cut off.

In English heraldry, heads that are couped or erased will have a little of the neck showing. In Scottish heraldry, heads are couped or erased close, meaning right behind the ears. This is perhaps most noticeable in boars' heads.

Caboshed (cabossed, caboched) is a head that has been removed from neck and is shown affronty (from the front).

What you have shown are a stag's head couped and a stag's head erased respectively. A stag's head caboshed would appear thus:

[ThistleDown]

Thank you, Kenneth, for the gentle correction.

[Carolina Kiltman]

I always liked this definition of expert...(not a reference to you)

"Someone who knows more and more about less and less until they eventually know everything about nothing"

Gee, I had heard this about Ph,.D's (I are one)

I thought an expert was either a drip under pressure, or any damn fool more than 20 miles (32 km) from home who carries a brief-case!








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