Civilian Mess Jackets

[saxandpipes]

Wow, continuing to make me envious...!

What a find!

Maybe the sleeves look a little bit long, they seem to bunch up a bit in the view from the back. But otherwise, what great fortune to find something like that. I like the look, and again a bit different to what one normally sees young people wearing.

Also, seriously coveting the hose... and I was thinking of a Regulation Doublet for my wedding (next year!) but I might be tempted to investigate this style further... I like the simplicity of it, while still managing to be quite striking.

Cheers!

Michael

[Spartan Tartan]

Good call on the converted Navy mess jacket. Sound like we might be waiting a while to see that one?

Yeah...it might be "a while"... But, I promise to get other nice gear and pictures of that in the meantime

I had never thought of the buttons on a "regular" jacket catching on chairs (as MOR mentions). Something to really keep in mind for future reference..

[figheadair]

As an aside, the jacket came with a kilt. It is the MacDonald tartan, I don't have any connection to that clan, and its too big for me, so I'm offering it for sale at the same price I paid for it.

Finally some pictures of my new jacket:

A point of correction and to avoid any confusion as you try to sell it but the kilt is MacQuarrie, not MacDonald of Sleat with which you have confused it.

[CMcG]

A point of correction and to avoid any confusion as you try to sell it but the kilt is MacQuarrie, not MacDonald of Sleat with which you have confused it.

You are, of course, entirely correct that I am wearing MacQuarrie in that photo. The MacDonald kilt that I am selling is too big for me. There was some discussion on the sale thread that, more specifically, it is MacDonald Ancient. Here are a couple pics of it:

[longhuntr74]

...who wore the Mess dress for his wedding. I was looking to find out if it was authorized so I could do likewise without fear of reprisal. At present it isn't, for the Marines. Though in the Army and Airforce I know there are Official tartans, and are authorized for wear in uniform...

Can't speak for the USAF, but your statement about the Army is absolutely false. There's no "official" tartan and it's not authorized for wear with uniforms...unless you've read some brand new AR670-1 that I'm unfamiliar with. I've seen it done. Doesn't mean it's official or authorized.

[Whidbey78]

Looks good CMcG. I don't have one yet, but it would be my choice for formal wear. I'm keeping my eyes open for a ridiculously good deal on a mess jacket or an Eton. I don't go formal very often--every couple of years--but wouldn't mind having it ready to go.

I noticed the "dip" in the back in one of your pics. Is that the norm for civilian style mess jackets? I never really noticed it before. It's kind of like a bobbed tail or a vestigial remnant of long tails. I'm not sure if I like that part, but I wouldn't see it so it really wouldn't matter.

I really dig the cuffs though. Much nicer than the US style military ones. I'll probably wind up converting a bargain tailcoat before I find a really good deal on a mess jacket.

It seems a bit unbalanced with three buttons on the right side, but I'm used to seeing them on both sides.

Congrats on the find! I'm sure it will serve you well for many years.

[Poohspot18]

What I have been told by friends in those branches was that there are pipe bands in those branches and you can wear Kilts in uniform in that capacity, but not for regular unit functions or just whenever you wish. I have not seen the Orders for those branches, so I stand corrected. I will say that I have seen it done in the Army, Airforce and Navy.

[Whidbey78]

No branch of the US military(US Army, ASAF, USMC, USN or USCG) has an "officially" recognized tartan. While pipe bands and such can use it, it is still not an officially sanctioned nor recognized uniform item in any US military unit or branch. There is no mention of kilt or tartans in any US military uniform manual. Period. For the record, I have served in two branches of the US military and have conducted long-term joint operations with the others, and am familiar with uniform reg's of all five branches of the US military. Pipe bands are the exception and do not serve as an example of mess dress in any instance except pipe bands joining in formal proceedings with no break between their piping function andthe rest of the proceedings.

In cases where a kilt is allowed with a US military uniform it is an exception, not the rule. This has been discussed and researched ad nausium on the forum.

Let's just let CMcG know he got a heck-of-a deal here and it looks good!

[CMcG]

Looks good CMcG. I don't have one yet, but it would be my choice for formal wear. I'm keeping my eyes open for a ridiculously good deal on a mess jacket or an Eton. I don't go formal very often--every couple of years--but wouldn't mind having it ready to go.

I noticed the "dip" in the back in one of your pics. Is that the norm for civilian style mess jackets? I never really noticed it before. It's kind of like a bobbed tail or a vestigial remnant of long tails. I'm not sure if I like that part, but I wouldn't see it so it really wouldn't matter.

I really dig the cuffs though. Much nicer than the US style military ones. I'll probably wind up converting a bargain tailcoat before I find a really good deal on a mess jacket.

It seems a bit unbalanced with three buttons on the right side, but I'm used to seeing them on both sides.

Congrats on the find! I'm sure it will serve you well for many years.

You can find cheap, good quality, ex-rental Eton or Spencer jackets on eBay US or Canada by searching for "tuxedo waist coat" (note the space in between "waist" and "coat"). This tag, however, would probably turn up a vest on eBay UK Avoid the Spencer/Eton jackets that are oriented towards the hospitality industry because they are usually cheap, washable polyester (not a formal fabric) and make one look like a waiter or bellhop!

That being said, there are some subtle differences between a mess jacket and an Eton or Spencer. I don't think the latter ever come with cuffs like my jacket... Ex-military mess jackets seem more common on eBay UK.

As for the dip in the back, I'm not sure if that is common or not? The pic from Geoffrey (tailor)'s site shows a level back but Robert MacDonald's site suggests that higher cut sides, peaked front, and dipped back are the standard.

And fair enough, the buttons on my jacket being on one side is unbalanced compared to the decorative 6 button array on a standard Prince Charlie. They are ostensibly there to button the jacket closed, but the irony is that mine are non functional

<snip>
In cases where a kilt is allowed with a US military uniform it is an exception, not the rule. This has been discussed and researched ad nausium on the forum.

Let's just let CMcG know he got a heck-of-a deal here and it looks good!

US military uniforms and the kilt seems like a tricky issue to negotiate. Even taking a military mess jacket for civilian wear, in all propriety, requires some extra effort to remove insignia. This is why I looked for (and found) a civilian mess jacket

Thanks for the compliment Whidbey78. It will only be a good deal for me if I can sell off that MacDonald kilt... support your local grad student, rabble

[robbiethepiper]

Excellent jacket. I have one in a similar style from McKenzie Frain in rifle green with matching vest. Think the white vest a brilliant idea.......Robbie