What's Modern Kilt Wear> ...or...what's this subforum really about?

[seanachie]

I only wear traditional kilts, though one of them is a box pleated kilt which some people would do not consider traditional.
I did not mean to ramble, but there you are.

Now that comment only throws gas on the fire. LOL. I don't own a tank among my traditional kilts I only have box pleats and kingussie. (no need for debate thrown in to add some levity)

[English Bloke]

EDIT: Please, this too is posted with a light hearted smile attached. It isn't my intention to shake the bottle.

Loafers? WITH A KILT?! You are joking aren't you? Oh my good gracious me...

And my new word for the day? "Teleological" (I didn't go to a very good school and spent most of my time there either playing rugby or smoking tabs behind the bike sheds.) Thanks CMcG. Great post by the way. I'll bet if you'd written that with with a quill you'd have undersigned it with a satisfied grin and an extensive flourish. I would have, were it mine.

I think I've mentioned before, it's just clothes to me and not a twice a year (mibbies) icon for that extra special occasion. My attitude is clearly at odds with Highland traditional but I think this unconventional way is finding more common ground across the rest of Scotland where the kilt is being embraced as a symbol of National identity rather than solely Highland identity. So much so it is almost conventional now. Certainly more commonly seen than tweeds and matching leathers.

There is though, in my opinion, room for both.

Non Traditional would also seem to be de rigueur among other Kilt wearers internationally too, err... including Englandshire. The popularity of the kilt in all it's forms is spreading and for me the attraction is it's comfort, versatility and incredible style. (others may vary), but I don't think this spread is a bad thing. In fact it can only be a wonderful thing for weavers and kiltmakers.

Some pictures then to display my take on a modern and unconventional style with occasional tilts to the traditional. (I'm not really cutting edge and radically out there. Alex is more hep an' with it than me... but hey, who's countin')


Very casual down the pub mode. Denim Jacket over polo shirt, hose up, red/green garter ties, brown leather trainers (polished, quite sad that), black stillwater nylon cargo sporran and black belt and black enamel and shiny chrome buckle. Kilt is Eight yard hand sewn knifepleats in 16oz wool. It's a not unusual look for me and where I am most comfortable probably.


Out with my little girl, casual. Wool jacket over rugby shirt. Socks up, black oxfords (brush polished). Stillwater nylon cargo sporran. Eight yard machine sewn knifepleats in 13oz wool. Edit: I love this picture... I am steered by my ears.


Smart but casual. Red shirt, black and thin red striped tie (by George at ASDA) socks up, red flashes. Brown leather "Jacobite stylee" sporran. brown belt and brass plate buckle, plain brown leather shoes (polished). Eight yard machine sewn knifepleats in a 12oz PV.


Modern Formal. Black PC Jacket and waistcoat (silk lapel facings and Great Grandfather's silver pocket watch). Formal ripple front white shirt with plain collar, black tie, black socks, plum red flashes, black brogues (bulled up), black bovine and pewter "dress Sporran" worn at a jaunty angle on a black leather sporran strap (more attention to detail required). Double box pleated kilt, hand sewn in 15oz wool (merci Madame).


Down the pub smartest. Leaning toward traditional with a grey wool braemar jacket and waistcoat. Blue shirt, regimental tie, hose and garter ties, brown brogues, brown leather Stillwater cargo sporran. I like this get-up very much but the occasion has to be right and it's true this jacket combo spends much more time in the cupboard than it does on my back...

Tartans, for those who are intersted are Bruce Modern, Johnstone Modern, Black Stewart Modern, Lindsay Modern and Bruce (again)... In that order. I also have a black denim utility kilt but haven't, as yet had the guts to venture forth while wearing it... so I ain't got pictures... so it didn't happen OK?

Cummon fellas? We're all Faaaamily. No need to fall out.

[CMcG]

Clap, clap, clap. Good words from good thinking.

First off; CMcG, that was one outstanding well thought out post! Agree wholeheartedly.
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<snip>
And my new word for the day? "Teleological" (I didn't go to a very good school and spent most of my time there either playing rugby or smoking tabs behind the bike sheds.) Thanks CMcG. Great post by the way. I'll bet if you'd written that with with a quill you'd have undersigned it with a satisfied grin and an extensive flourish. I would have, were it mine.

Thanks gentlemen for taking the time to read that post and comment. English Bloke, I gave as extensive a flourish as the gesture of pressing 'enter' allows

<snip>
The Modern Kilt Wear forum section's description is correct. "As the kilt is worn today."
That is everything including full Prince Charlie with all the bells and whistles and also a totally punked out or goth kilt with enough spikes to terrify an airport security agent.

I had to pause and think about how a full PC rig can end up on the same sub-forum as punk/goth kilts... and then English Bloke came to the rescue with a picture! First I looked at his outfit and thought he looked very sharp, jaunty sporran and all

Then I tried to think from a traditional perspective and quickly pulled out several things that might be considered at least a bending of the "rules" for formal THCD: black socks rather than diced, Argyle, or self-coloured; overall matchiness in colour choices; and double box pleats, which I understand weren't invented until the 21st century. Overall, he still looks quite traditional but does show some modernist tendencies that might be subjected to disapproval on the Traditional Kilt Wear sub-forum.

I think this poses a bit of a problem.

Lumping everything that isn't purely traditional or historical into one sub-forum seems potentially confusing, as this thread has shown. Perhaps there needs to be a split of Modern Kilt Wear into two: Modernist Kilt Wear and Contemporary Kilt Wear.

Modernist Kilt Wear would be the place to talk about style that breaks with tradition, while Contemporary Kilt Wear would mean the way the kilt is worn today as an evolution of tradition. Steve Villegas vs. Howie Nicholsby, punk kilt vs. tank with a twist, and cargo pockets vs. machine-sewn P/V tartan.

On the other had, Steve is the forum owner and has been on Xmarks for a long time, so perhaps there is some wisdom to lumping contemporary and modernist approaches on one sub-forum. They share a common freedom from rules though each approach pushes past the boundaries of tradition in different amounts. If I may paraphrase him, the Modern Kilt Wear sub-forum is the place where there are no Kilt Kops

Here's something to help visualize the extent of the clash:

Modern Formal. Black PC Jacket and waistcoat (silk lapel facings and Great Grandfathers silver pocket watch). Formal ripple front white shirt with plain collar, black tie, black socks, plum red flashes, black brogues (bulled up), black bovine and pewter "dress Sporran" worn at a jaunty angle on a black leather sporran strap (more attention to detail required). Double box pleated kilt, hand sewn in 15oz wool (merci Madame).
<snip>

Chains, studs, and motercycle with kilt:



Slanj's version of a "modern" PC:



All black kilt outfit with metal highlights and pin stripes:

So I have a question. Is there a formal look for modern kilt wear?

And here's ones for Cowher: tuxedo Utilikilt!

[lukeyrobertson]

Well, I like the idea of "modern" wear as Steve defines it. We are in modern well, some would say "post-modern" times. For me there is something quite freeing if unconventional, to give THCD a gentle toss (notice I said gentle, because I really do like THCD dress) and golly, just go wild!

[Cowher]

Haha I love it CMcG!!

[Ian.MacAllan]

Whenever I'm tempted to abandon a society because of a fancied offense received, I am humbled by a childhood memory: the time a 12-year-old playmate loudly announced, "If you won't play by my rules I'm taking my bat and my glove and going home!" The rest of us were surprised and a bit regretful but not daunted; our rules had been in effect when he joined us, we had two other bats, none of us had gloves, and the ball was not his.

The humbling part is this: play resumed in about two minutes, and two days later that boy was back among us.

.

[Lyle1]

Now that comment only throws gas on the fire. LOL. I don't own a tank among my traditional kilts I only have box pleats and kingussie. (no need for debate thrown in to add some levity)

When I wrote that about my box pleated kilt, I hoped that people take it exactly the way you did. I almost deleted it, so as not fan the fire, but it does illustrate exactly how nonsensical some of the arguments on this forum can get.

[Father Bill]

You know what interests me? So much of this discussion, so many offenses real or imagined, so many well-humoured responses... and most of it boils down to how do we define words and terms. As an old (I was going to change that to former, but "old" seems to hit the spot just fine, thank you) ...as an old English teacher, it delights me to notice how many of us care about words!

[seanachie]

When I wrote that about my box pleated kilt, I hoped that people take it exactly the way you did. I almost deleted it, so as not fan the fire, but it does illustrate exactly how nonsensical some of the arguments on this forum can get.

I agree,,, I guess there is a point where, to my mind, some variations cross the line. Too extreme, too I want to make a statement, too I am just trying to be controversial but how to define it, there is that word again, is difficult. I am reminded of the US Supreme Court struggling to define pornography and Oliver Wendell Holmes saying "you'll know it when you see it." So in that regard I am empathetic to the upset from staunch traditionalist whose sensibilities and sense of heritage are offended. Many other modern interpretations are far less offensive and easier to say to each his own but not for me.

[Tony]

My ever so humble suggestion then (which is kinda not much different than Alan's original posting).....

If Steve's definition stands then this forum is really no different than the General Kilt Forum and should be merged with it.

If the demand is great enough there should be a "Contemporary" (or use word of choice) forum that is specifically for X Kilts, Alt Kilts, Utilikilts, Freedom kilts etc.