Boy Scout kilts

[Chas]

It has been repeatedly said in this thread that Baden-Powell did not wear a kilt, or "show us the evidence," etc. I would like to point out firstly, to the best of my knowledge, he was not Scottish, so why would we even expect him to have worn a kilt. But his close friend and comrade in starting Scouting (MacLaren), and who became the first secretary of the movement, was, and undoubtedly wore a kilt. For more information on this, see the Clan MacLaren website.

That having been said, there IS a print of Baden-Powell in a kilt, so let's quash that line of arguement.

Here it is:

This is NOT Baden-Powell. Just look at his face, did he suddenly get younger and grow hair thirty years later? As far as I can see his medals are wrong. The time-line just doesn't make sense; the picture is attributed to the 19th century but B-P did not become a Lieutenant-General till 1907 (he was still a Lieutenant-Colonel in 1901).

B-P himself said that he had never worn a kilt because "he didn't have the legs for it". (His words - His quote.)

B-P came from an age when men where taught to dress in the right clothes for the right occasion, according to their station in life. He was also a high ranking army officer, so he knew about dress regulations and the importance of wearing the right clothes. In his army career, he never served with any Scottish or Highland regiment - so why would he wear the uniform of a different regiment?

When B-P was alive, the only people who wore the kilt were Scotsmen (from the highlands), servicemen or actors.

B-P was not a Scotsman, he did not serve in a Scottish regiment and he wasn't an actor.

IF B-P had worn a kilt, it would have been seen as an insult to the Scots. Men did not then (nor do they today) wear a uniform of a different regiment as a token of honour or respect.

That uniform, at that time, would have cost many hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds sterling (the gold you see, was real gold wire). B-P was not a 'rich' man. That uniform would have cost the best part of a years salary. Besides his army uniforms that he would have to buy himself, he was also a Knight Commander of the Victorian Order. Another whole set of uniforms and robes. I do not think that it is reasonable that B-P would have bought a Levee Dress uniform and only wear it once for a photograph. There is no record of him wearing it for any other occasion.

The truth of the matter is that the photograph is mis-attributed. B-P never wore a kilt and no amount of wishing and hoping will make it so. This is like the Fountain of Youth or Eldorado or the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Rational thought says that they don't exist, but that doesn't stop thousands searching.

Regards

Chas

[Chas]

I would add two extra little points:

1. There are two types of ear lobe; attached and unattached. B-P had unattached, the other man has attached earlobes.
2. B-P did not have a dimple in his chin, the other man has a dimple.

Sorry, but this is genetic; it is the way he was born. Unless someone is suggesting that B-P underwent cosmetic surgery that was not invented at that time and he magically lost all the scars, then there is no way these two people are the same man.

Regards

Chas

[claidheamdanns]

My Boy Scout kilt, from StillwaterKilts.com cost less than my Scout uniform. It was $28.95

[claidheamdanns]

Fair enough ... here's the reference. Remember that this is a picture of Baden-Powell in his younger days. But it is, in fact, the man himself: Lt. Gen. Robert Baden-Powell.

[SlackerDrummer]

Fair enough ... here's the reference. Remember that this is a picture of Baden-Powell in his younger days. But it is, in fact, the man himself: Lt. Gen. Robert Baden-Powell.

The reference has now corrected their information, based on a comment by the National Scout Museum. The portrait is of Field Marshall Sir George White.

[Kilt-alope]

I wear a kilt with my BSA uniform on some occasions. OA events with appropriate themes (highland games, Scotland vs England etc) and at summer camp when I have to run the scout leader golf tournament, all in good fun for a good time. The last time I ran the tournament the council scout executive asked if I was a scout from Scotland, I explained it was for the golf game and I was from his council, BSA, we had a good conversation and a great laugh.
I fully intend to wear my Maclaren tartan kilt to my wood badge beading (92-64 antelope) other than that I have an OD green kilt I made for a themed OA event with a costume contest (second place)
I know that a kilt is not part of the uniform, which is why I only wear it at what I can argue are appropriate times. If you want my scouting experience or qualifications just ask. I have several uniform adaptations for other circumstances and they all have their place but most of the time I try to look like I stepped out of the scout shop catalog.
If there were an official BSA uniform kilt, I would wear it happily, if I can talk my venture crew into adopting one, same thing. But right now the book does say pants/shorts, or nowadays pants that have legs that zip off into shorts

[Kiltdad]

To all you Venturing Crews who have gone kilted - I am in need of a few pairs each of the recently discontinued gray cotton Venturing shorts or long pants in size 36. New or used condition is fine. Please drop a pm if you are able to help.

Thanks.

John

[Biathlonman]

I was a Scouter (Scoutmaster) here in Canada for several years, and often saw that very senior Scout leaders would wear kilts, despite it not being part of "official" dress.

There are many photos of Lord Baden-Powell wearing a kilt, and the present Chief Scout of Great Britain doing so, but I would wear it when I took my Cubs or Scouts to Remembrance Day services around Nov 11 at the churches that sponsored us. I used my Scout hose and flashes, and the kilt was my own family one. Always got good comments of course.

Made the gross error of checking it "legality" with Scouts Canada HQ and despite multiculturalism etc - if I was a Sikh I could wear a turban - I was told absolutely to cease and desist. It would have made a fabulous media story - the kind to make people's blood boil - but there was little benefit slamming an organization with lots of problems anyway, that was already downplaying the uniform to make Scouts virtually invisible. Not long afterward my son left Scouts and that was that.
Canada ironically is perhaps more kilt-friendly than Scotland in many respects, so say many Scots.

[Chas]

There are many photos of Lord Baden-Powell wearing a kilt

NO THERE ARE NOT! Please read the WHOLE thread.

Regards

Chas

[Biathlonman]

I read the entire thread as you suggested - undoubtedly the founder of the Boy Scouts went kilted on occasion. There may not be many photos to prove it but there are a few, certainly.

There's provision in the Scout dress regulations in both Scotland and Australia for kilts - none in Canada to my knowledge, which would be a PR problem for Scouts Canada should someone make an issue of it.

Like all Scout organizations though, they have bigger fish to fry.