"Dressing down a culture"

**Father Bill** · 1st September 13, 02:51 PM

That wouldn't be much problematic to me. Our forces folk sometimes wear their headgear properly into the church while parading. They remove it later, but I see a parallel here.

**BBNC** · 1st September 13, 04:35 PM

Is "dressing down" a sign of the loosening up of fashion mores, are we realizing that comfortable is better, or as some have suggested, are we becoming slobs? I remember when any decent restaurant required a coat and tie, and they had a rack of coats and ties for patrons who came unprepared.

**TheOfficialBren** · 1st September 13, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by BBNC

Is "dressing down" a sign of the loosening up of fashion mores, are we realizing that comfortable is better, or as some have suggested, are we becoming slobs? I remember when any decent restaurant required a coat and tie, and they had a rack of coats and ties for patrons who came unprepared.

I think that there are broader context clues that point us in the direction of the answer (and, like it or not, this issue is quite definately finite).

We (as a people) are becoming a lazier bunch. Formality is seen as largely inconvenient by today's people.

I would be happy to discuss some of the finer points of this statement from a socio-philosophical standpoint but the open forum is not the place lest toes be tread upon or rules broken.

Here's one big clue, though...daily vernacular. Big glaring clue to the answer to this "dressing down" questin.

**Katia** · 1st September 13, 06:49 PM

Out of curiosity... exactly what is offensive about wearing a hat, besides "it's just not what has always been done"?

I know men who wear hats nearly everywhere. (They happen to be the people in the office with the least hair, but whether this is a factor, I couldn't tell you, as I've never thought it my place to ask or care.) They do not interact with me or anyone else any differently than the men who do not wear hats. They are not less intelligent, skilled, hardworking, or respectful. They do not dress any better or any worse than anyone who does not wear a hat (it is a relatively-casual office, but at the times dress-up is needed, they look as good as anyone else). They are not more likely to not flush the toilet, make inappropriate jokes at inappropriate times, not clean up after themselves, leave others to do their work or otherwise not pull their weight, etc. etc. So why are they intolerably offensive just because they have something on their head? And why, then, would it be perfectly okay for me, as a woman, to wear the same hat every day and no one would bat an eyelash?

**kiltedrennie** · 2nd September 13, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Katia

Out of curiosity... exactly what is offensive about wearing a hat, besides "it's just not what has always been done"?

I know men who wear hats nearly everywhere. (They happen to be the people in the office with the least hair, but whether this is a factor, I couldn't tell you, as I've never thought it my place to ask or care.) They do not interact with me or anyone else any differently than the men who do not wear hats. They are not less intelligent, skilled, hardworking, or respectful. They do not dress any better or any worse than anyone who does not wear a hat (it is a relatively-casual office, but at the times dress-up is needed, they look as good as anyone else). They are not more likely to not flush the toilet, make inappropriate jokes at inappropriate times, not clean up after themselves, leave others to do their work or otherwise not pull their weight, etc. etc. So why are they intolerably offensive just because they have something on their head? And why, then, would it be perfectly okay for me, as a woman, to wear the same hat every day and no one would bat an eyelash?

I think it boils down to this. Social norms drift with time, new norms emerging gradually as a result of repeated use. Sometimes they evolve quickly, and settle down for a time - a punctuated equilibrium. When the potential return or positive outcome to an individual for a given behavioral norm diminishes, there's less incentive to conform. When "dress for success" diminished relative to "what have you done for lately" or "there's twenty waiting to do your job" why expend the effort if there's no reward?

Whenever the locals rub blue mud in their navels, I rub blue mud in mine just as solemnly. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love, pg 461

**NorseCelt** · 2nd September 13, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

Those who are familiar with either the movie or the TV series M*A*S*H will perhaps remember that Hawkeye and Pierce could do whatever they wanted because the army couldn't actually punish them much. What they wanted most was to be thrown out so they could go home and resume their private practices, neither of which would be likely barred to them if the army tossed them. To refer to another pop allusion, this one in music, "Me and Bobbie McGee" you may remember the lyrics "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

Sorry if I'm just being a little bit OCD, but Hawkeye and Pierce are the same character. Benjamin Franklin Pierce's father nicknamed him Hawkeye.
His original room mate was Trapper John McIntyre and the replacement was B.J. Hunnicutt.
Sorry again.

**Father Bill** · 2nd September 13, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by NorseCelt

Sorry if I'm just being a little bit OCD, but Hawkeye and Pierce are the same character. Benjamin Franklin Pierce's father nicknamed him Hawkeye.
His original room mate was Trapper John McIntyre and the replacement was B.J. Hunnicutt.
Sorry again.

No need to apologize; you're right! My head was elsewhere. The point I was making however, remains. Thanks for bumping me back on track.

**R. Crosby** · 3rd September 13, 06:18 PM

Society has become a little more informal in the way people present themselves to the public but as a kilt wearer is there any way we can present ourselves without coming off as to formal? I think that would be the challenge to wearing a kilt.

**kiltedrennie** · 4th September 13, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by R. Crosby

Society has become a little more informal in the way people present themselves to the public but as a kilt wearer is there any way we can present ourselves without coming off as to formal? I think that would be the challenge to wearing a kilt.

If you dress as you would with a bifurcated garment, it can be pretty easy. There's wide spectrum from one extreme to the other. I personally tend toward the very casual - t-shirt, boots, scrunched down socks, or business casual - polo shirt/button down colored shirt, black shoes, cotton/wool kilt hose. I use a simple leather sporran or (until recently "lost" by the TSA) a tweed sporran.

There's a great sticky thread here demonstrating examples of dress: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-attire-46888/

**Braw Cathairneach** · 8th September 13, 01:12 AM

This discussion reminds me that I admire my bayou bride as it seems she can’t take out the garbage without looking good. As a child born of the 1^st half of the previous century her sartorial selections for style and fit are always appropriate for the activity at hand from camping and fishing, to kirk, or an evening out. I’ll refrain from passing judgment on others other than to say that I find it disagreeable to view sizes that are too small and leave too little left to the imagination.

It can make for a long flight looking straight forward when the skirt has disappeared on the female seated next to me and has exposed her nether regions. I prefer to unwrap my own packages without any help, thank you very much. Call me old-fashioned and I’ll plead guilty as charged.