Black Tie Combinations

[Allan Thomson]

Timeout - please watch for Rule # 9

Rule #9
– This forum is not the place for the discussion of cross-dressing.

Father Bill for the Forum Moderators

It's not a comment that anyone who wears this style of shoe is crossdressing, just a point that in comparison to the style of buckled shoe worn in the 18thC the more modern style of buckled shoe resembles a woman's shoe more than looking anything like a representation of anything 18thC

I wouldn't worry though I think the style is common enough to make it clear you're wearing Highland dress and not anything else.

This forum is a bit hypersensitive about the rules at times...

[Father Bill]

It's not a comment that anyone who wears this style of shoe is crossdressing, just a point that in comparison to the style of buckled shoe worn in the 18thC the more modern style of buckled shoe resembles a woman's shoe more than looking anything like a representation of anything 18thC

I wouldn't worry though I think the style is common enough to make it clear you're wearing Highland dress and not anything else.

This forum is a bit hypersensitive about the rules at times...

I re-stated the rule because the topic of cross-dressing had been mentioned and I didn't want the discussion to devolve until someone was flagged.

If you think that the forum is hypersensitive or you don't like the rules, you're welcome to de-camp. Otherwise, if you wish to argue about the rules, I'll flag the post myself and then the moderators can vote as a group, but I will not continue any argument about the rules, nor the style of the forum. If you wish to argue, I will close this thread and perhaps flag your statement as a Rule 2 violation. This discussion is to end now.

Father Bill posting as a Forum Moderator.

[FossilHunter]

Is it just a pair of black shoes such as worn everyday or do you go for something more distinctive?

For black tie, well polished, plain black oxfords are perfectly acceptable.

[Ivor]

Thanks for explaining that, Allan so these buckle shoes are really something re-enactors are likely to wear are they? I just thought they looked quite distinctive but not if people would think they are women's shoes! I take it nobody really wears them anyway (apart from McMurdo that is).

[McMurdo]

Thanks for explaining that, Allan so these buckle shoes are really something re-enactors are likely to wear are they? I just thought they looked quite distinctive but not if people would think they are women's shoes! I take it nobody really wears them anyway (apart from McMurdo that is).

Oh people do wear them besides me, and they are not confused with a womans shoe by those in the know. My buckle brogues are in fact a dress military shoe and correct for White Tie Formal wear. You might want to do some research before making disparaging remarks next time.

[Allan Thomson]

Oh people do wear them besides me, and they are not confused with a womans shoe by those in the know. My buckle brogues are in fact a dress military shoe and correct for White Tie Formal wear. You might want to do some research before making disparaging remarks next time.

But if you look at an 18thC Style Buckle shoe as worn by Highlanders (who were not barefoot or in carrans), they look like this - Higher tongue, no cutaway at the top of the foot, the buckle is mounted pretty much in the space where conventional laces are...…VHE_LordDunmore.1948.76_e[1].jpg

Although I have seen some modern Buckle Highland shoes that look similar to the true style, most look like this - low cut at the front exposing a lot of the sock, decorative buckle, then small functional strap to secure shoe with small buckle on it... BUckle%20brogues%20in%20soft%20leather[1].jpg

For comparison a woman's Buckled pump - stick a decorative buckle on the front, large cutout which exposes the foot, and shoe 2 resembles shoe 3 more closely than shoe 1...…ECCO%20%20Sculptured%20Buckle%20PumpBlack40%20EU9-9.5%20M%20US%20-%20Womens%20Pumps%20Shoes%20On.jpg

And yes I did do my research, I was fully aware of the style and I have always thought it looked too feminine for my tastes. I blame George IV because that's when the style first becomes apparent. Mind you he did wear Pink tights with his kilt so who knows?.....
I would like some Buckled shoes (I tend to wear just conventional Brogues either Black or Brown, not Ghillies at the moment) but if I do I will pick something more of an 18thC style than a modern one....

As for military style well we do know that towards the end of the 18thC and throughout the 19thc Highland dress did morph somewhere towards being a peacock...…

[Allan Thomson]

Thanks for explaining that, Allan so these buckle shoes are really something re-enactors are likely to wear are they? I just thought they looked quite distinctive but not if people would think they are women's shoes! I take it nobody really wears them anyway (apart from McMurdo that is).

Re enactors (at least of the Jacobite period or commemorating Highland regiments in the 18thC are more likely to wear the true style of Buckled shoes rather than the ones modern kilt wear companies sell..

reenacting11[1].jpg

I guess it's a bit like the difference between Modern Ghillie Brogues...644px-Ghillie_Brogues[1].jpg


and Carrans…..DSC00200[1].JPG

[Ivor]

I am sorry if I have caused any offence, McMurdo and hope that “those in the know” here will keep me right about these things as I really don’t want to commit a “faux pas”. The more I learn the more convoluted and controversial various aspect of highland dress becomes so please indulge me.

[Tobus]

But if you look at an 18thC Style Buckle shoe as worn by Highlanders (who were not barefoot or in carrans), they look like this - Higher tongue, no cutaway at the top of the foot, the buckle is mounted pretty much in the space where conventional laces are...…

I don't know if you've seen it, but OC Richard posted a nicely detailed thread about this curious trend of buckles moving down towards the toe over time, and the transition to the "Mary Jane" style that seems prevalent today. It's an interesting read with some good follow-up discussion.

Incidentally, I've noticed over time that OC Richard has amassed quite a treasure trove of historical photos and knowledge of Highland dress, ranging from pipe bands and military uniforms to civilian dress items. Based on his attention to detail and his willingness to freely share this information in the way that he does, I think he deserves "forum historian" status as some others have been granted. How do we nominate him for that?

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f103/buckled-shoe-styles-94062/

[WillowEstate]

Incidentally, I've noticed over time that OC Richard has amassed quite a treasure trove of historical photos and knowledge of Highland dress, ranging from pipe bands and military uniforms to civilian dress items. Based on his attention to detail and his willingness to freely share this information in the way that he does, I think he deserves "forum historian" status as some others have been granted. How do we nominate him for that?

I would be happy to support your suggestion, Tobus. Since I joined the forum, I have been amazed at the depth of knowledge of OC Richard on all aspects of historic highland dress and, as you say, his willingness to share that information with us so generously.