The Kilt Kops

[Bugbear]

Perhaps the worst way to approach this is to give up...or not try.

With anything in life understanding is knowledge and knowledge is power.

But that said, if what we're talking about here is Traditions and culture, it's not some strange language or arcane science. It's just people and their feelings about things that mean something to them. Don't we all feel like that about something? Isn't that part of what makes us human? Is respecting those feelings so hard?

My ancient Scots ancestors left Scotland right after the battle of Bannockburn...well before the Scots themselves knew kilts. I don't feel any mystical attachment to kilts but I do feel some resonance with something in myself...I'm not sure what it is--being a little Scottish, I suppose...and proud of that.

But you know, the best thing about Traditions is that they serve to remind us of important things that we may not understand simply because we weren't there when it happened. By the time a Tradition gets passed down through multiple generations--as any convention or fashion must to truly be a Tradition--no one really understands it the way it was originally understood.

Historians, archaeologists, and serious re-enactors often put themselves in situations as close to events long gone as possible...in order to understand, or come close to understanding, what their ancestors went through, what import/meaning the Traditions carry.

I wear the kilt Traditionally precisely because at some level I don't and can't understand it the way natives Scots do. So I try to be as true to the Traditions as I I know how and I listen very closely to those closer to the mark. That's the way...maybe the only way (for me at least)...that I can come close to understanding something I respect and want to understand.

My ancestors were not Scots; stretch the rubber band too far, and it snaps. It was out of respect that I put the kilt and tartan away. As I said, it is not my tradition in which to dabble; I need to not give up my own traditions and culture to wear a kilt. I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree that it is not a "strange language or arcane science"; your own words in this post strongly suggest that it is, at least where respect is concerned.
And with that, I am "thinking too much" and getting "bent around the axle," as The Wizard of BC says, so I will withdraw from this thread before I cause trouble.

[Father Bill]

Fellows, I'm reading some posts that say basically that folks should just toughen up, grow a thick skin and have some more gumption. From my counselling experience however, that's just not the way emotions work.

If someone feels hurt, embarassed, offended, upset... that IS the way they feel. Telling them to toughen up is akin to attacking them for having feelings. It would be nice if hurt would go away or better, never come, but it doesn't work that way.

How we respond to someone's comment is within our control, but how we feel just isn't.

I love the tolerance of so many. I love as brothers and sisters those who are carefully minding the way in which they express themselves.

God give me grace and wisdom that what I express in well-meaning kindness never be taken as anything but that, and never as an attack.

[Peter Crowe]

Fellows, I'm reading some posts that say basically that folks should just toughen up, grow a thick skin and have some more gumption. From my counselling experience however, that's just not the way emotions work.

If someone feels hurt, embarassed, offended, upset... that IS the way they feel. Telling them to toughen up is akin to attacking them for having feelings. It would be nice if hurt would go away or better, never come, but it doesn't work that way.

How we respond to someone's comment is within our control, but how we feel just isn't.

I love the tolerance of so many. I love as brothers and sisters those who are carefully minding the way in which they express themselves.

God give me grace and wisdom that what I express in well-meaning kindness never be taken as anything but that, and never as an attack.

A very sage observation Fr. Bill, and one which should certainly resonate with all men and women of goodwill.

[Taygrd]

*** Father Bill.
I think this horse is dead, as a mater of fact it is probaly glue by now
I am thick skinned, a product of my environment and chosen careers, from now on I will take a more measured approach in my responses out of consideration for those who might not be. Say goodnight Gracie!

[AFS1970]

OK, I must be reading the wrong threads here, or not reading the right threads. Until this thread I never noticed the "kilt cop" mentality on the forums. I have seen folks ask questions and get answers, well I can hardly blame the answer givers for answering a question asking for public opinion.

If someone posts about what color hose goes with a certain tartan or if they should wear a T-Shirt to a formal banquet (or a Montrose to a ren faire) they should not be surprised when they get a large amount of answers, some of which might even be helpful. I have learned allot about wearing kilts and other traditional wear, just by reading some of these threads. I hope they will never stop.

As for opinions, all my posts are my opinion. I don't think I should have to put down that this is my opinion, humble or otherwise, as it is implied by the fact that it is posted by me, under my screen name. I have found many people here that I agree with and disagree with on a variety of topics, not all of them kilt related. However it is the same in the real (non-internet) world also. So be it.

I also liked reading the results of Jock's poll, it was a very informative read and gave some insight into allot of things. It did not make me want to throw away my kilt, or stop wearing it. It does make one more mindful of the traditions we are emulating and the respect we should have for them, to read the opinions of highlanders and other Scots on these issues.

As for Father Bill's right to wear a kilt, well I am not sure there is anyone who can award or rescind that right, if it even exists. However even if we could say that by strict birth or national origin there was no right, I would offer that by ordination that right was conferred, in that there is a clergy tartan and he is now and forever clergy. This is much like a regimental tartan, the right to wear it goes with being part of the whole, not with being an individual.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Father Bill,and any others who may inadvertantly be upset by posts.

I have found that the grittier the debate gets,the more I end up admiring those with enough of the stiff upper lip to hold thier own,particularly the ones that can do so whilst obeying the queens rules,so to speak.

Was not this same grit needed on Floddens field,in the chiltroms of Falkirk,in the grape shot flayed lines waiting for the charge on Drummossie moor,in the thin red line that saved Sebastopol,or in the trenches on the Somme?For families with Scots blood this is part of the spirit that is awakened when the kilt is worn.Is not attraction to this 'aura' about the kilt also partly why it holds some attraction for you?

Then don't let the encouragements(I said encouragements)to toughen up be seen as anything more than a clear reminder of the ancestors of whose offsprings company you keep.It goes with this territory.
I hear you when you say responses can be controlled, feelings cannot.
But if you work through those feelings and reach a point where they won't beat you,then that is true toughness,is it not?

[tpa]

Ladies and Gentlemen of X Marks.

This forum will welcome anyone who wears, or wishes to wear, the kilt.

Perhaps Steve should have added the word encourage into his opening post.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion,but surely this forum exists to encourage not discourage kilt wearing.

I'm Scottish and proud of it, not Highland, but my kilts have been part of me for most of my life. No one has ever complained about me wearing them however I choose to, though I don't choose to look ridiculous, at least to my eyes.

Personally I love tartan and tartan kilts; there are very few people male or female who do not look good in a suitably chosen kilt or kilted skirt. There are a lot of particularly male shapes who quite frankly look a whole lot better in a kilt than in any form of trousers (US: pants). Who would not prefer to see a neatly kilted rear to an exposed male rear cleavage when bent over?

We should be encouraging as many people as possible to give it a try and see the benefits for themselves, especially as the continuation of supply of highland attire is relatively speaking of more importance to Scottish industries than elsewhere.

I can appreciate where the die hard Highlanders are coming from, but many men from other countries have fought and died in kilts. Most Scotsmen should be proud that people from other nations appreciate and wear what they regard as their heritage.

Let us keep encouraging it and provide guidance when requested, as we would if asked about any other apparel. We don't hear talk of skirt or trouser police, however ridiculous some people manage to look, and many who should know, or should be better advised, do. So let's keep it constructive and helpful, spread the word and set the example.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

T.P.A.

You make very valid points.

I like the cut of your jib!

[tpa]

T.P.A.

You make very valid points.

I like the cut of your jib!

Thank you. As a keen sailor I like your turn of phrase.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Father Bill to try to imply that this forum should be conducted like a bloody battle was not my intent.I perhaps used the well known conflict examples in a too vivid way that detracted from the point I was hoping to convey,being:

Due to many reasons in history,some good examples which you yourself mentioned earlier,Scots and thier kin(along withevery other human,lets face it)have needed resilience and toughness to stick it.

It was my intent to say,don't take the cry 'toughen up' to mean, 'we dismiss your feelings' but rather as a call to raise up to the challenge and don't be put off,even if anothers words seem to leave you no hope to ever hear them say what you want to hearor even the way you wish to hear it.

This forum is called XmarkstheScot.
Scots and those who have grown up with thier ways as standard can be blunt,to the point,and even scathing at times of attempts to sugar coat the pill.A respect for truth,put out in an often pithy way, is evident.
To illustrate:
To be seen changing your mind or being unable to come to a definate point is known as feckless.
To be unable to hold your own without maintaining a stiff upper lip is known as gormless.
There are other descriptive terms well in use by Scots today,I assure you,that cover the same traits,but I feel I would be sensured to state them here!

This forum even goes as far as to include the Saltire as part of it's logo.You must expect to come across opinions and beliefs stated in a most Scottish manner,from time to time!

P.s Here down under we simply turn to someone and say "Stop carrying on like a virgin at a chop picnic!Take a spoonful of cement and harden the ---- up"
Ha ha!It's not all cuddly koalas down here either.Look forward to seeing stick around.