The Ghillie Shirt

[tripleblessed]

It sort of amazes me that so many new kilt-wearers buy a kilt, knowing full well that it is a distinct piece of cultural garb with a rich history, but thinking that it comes with no attachments to any other cultural traditions.

It is also interesting that people who do grow with cultural awareness and customs related to the wearing of kilts, jodhpurs, baseball caps, or such often
make the assumption that the customs they grew up with are the only ones that count This negates and demeans the experience of others who have
different lines of connection to said item. An example is seen here frequently in the byplay between North American* kilters and Scots kilters; both have equal claim to their customs, neither is further down the timeline from "how it was worn then" than the other. It's like arguing over descent in that though most of us learn most from our mothers, many try to insist our fathers are more important. An old Spanish adage opines that "an ounce of mother is worth a pound of priest". Both, however, contribute, and customs are passed with varying results. The idea of "National Attire" associated with the kilt is rather
late to the dinner table. By the time most Lowland Scots would consider the kilt having any connection to them and theirs, the kilt had spread across the world and spawned other needs and perspectives. Yes, we pay attention to the Highland way, as first among equals. But this isn't "1984", where some are more equal than others. We are all a polyglot of influences and a mishmash of cultures, and rightfully honor them all. Outside the levels of dress,
which are reasonably simple and clear, there is room for much variance. And much precedent.

A wise man, often quoted, is reported to have said he wouldn't presume to dictate another's choices of food, drink, or apparel. It is not reported that he said he would not have opinions on such matters, just that there is room for choice. And, probably, error.


* I am not unaware of the subsets of Southern kilters , I believe I have been placed in class of "off kilters". Stipulated.

[Ivor]

Thanks everyone for your input. I have no doubt that conventions for highland dress are extremely important and have no wish to contradict these. What I have seen, however, is an historical element of this site and a much more independent outlook towards kilt wearing. It seems that there were two distinct groups, those who wore casual kilts and those who wore a traditional form of attire. Nowadays the forum seems much more focussed on traditional highland dress and so does this mean that the casual dress wearers are no longer active here?

[imbrius]

Nowadays the forum seems much more focussed on traditional highland dress and so does this mean that the casual dress wearers are no longer active here?

I'm a casual dress kilt wearer. As I type this, I'm wearing a red golf shirt, my almost-traditional style 5 yard acrylic kilt, a brown leather D-ring belt, a cheap black leather sporran, high-rise nylon dress socks with a nice cable pattern and the tops folded over a pair of red nylon flashes my wife made for me, and my wingtips for the office. It's not traditional (no tattersall, "official" kilt hose, no waistcoat, no jumper or sweater vest, etc.). But it's nice-looking and suitable wear for my office and the Highland Games I'll be attending after work today - and I think, though clearly modern in style, it shows respect for the traditions without strictly adhering to them. Maybe that's just my opinion of it.

[tripleblessed]

Many here could not be viewed in any terms other than casual. I myself tend toward t-shirts with art, not ads, but as I often include garter ties and
always have shirttail tucked, I would be seen as not as low on the casual/traditional spectrum as a lot of folk. But most dress as conditions and the
occasion dictate. Had I need for more formal attire, I would enjoy the wearing. Without need, can't justify the expense.

In any case, all are welcome.

[Manu]

It 6seems that there were two distinct groups, those who wore casual kilts and those who wore a traditional form of attire. Nowadays the forum seems much more focussed on traditional highland dress and so does this mean that the casual dress wearers are no longer active here?

How do you define casual?

[Panache]

Thanks everyone for your input. I have no doubt that conventions for highland dress are extremely important and have no wish to contradict these. What I have seen, however, is an historical element of this site and a much more independent outlook towards kilt wearing. It seems that there were two distinct groups, those who wore casual kilts and those who wore a traditional form of attire. Nowadays the forum seems much more focussed on traditional highland dress and so does this mean that the casual dress wearers are no longer active here?

Ivor,


There is a traditional approach to highland attire and that is one thing.

There are modern approaches to highland attire and they are another.

What seems to be in question here (though it isn't really a question) is if the ghillie / clansman / highlander/ pirate shirt falls into either of these two categories.

The answer really is no. It is a fun romantic and theatrical look that is fine at festivals and such. As a Scottish Country Dancer I have worn them to dances as do a lot of other fellows and we look quite dashing (and they are comfortable). However, for regular streetwear in a regular everyday sort of situation...they are quite a bit costume-like (because they are psuedo-historical romantic costume pieces). They are neither fish nor fowl, not a modern look or traditional look. People can do as they wish, but in my opinion, these shirts are best worn in certain circumstances where a more theatrical or costume-like look fits.


Here is a link to a thread with a number of photos of modern highland attire

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...n-looks-71595/

Cheers

Jamie

[Ivor]

Thanks for your input, Panache, and my troll through old threads has dredged up your penchant for non-traditional attire such a pith helmets so I believe you have an open mind when it comes to highland dress. I am not seeking to upset conventions here, just get an understanding of them.

[Panache]

Thanks for your input, Panache, and my troll through old threads has dredged up your penchant for non-traditional attire such a pith helmets so I believe you have an open mind when it comes to highland dress. I am not seeking to upset conventions here, just get an understanding of them.

Ivor,

There is a fair chance I will be sporting one when I go to the Pleasanton Highland Games tomorrow, but they aren't something I would wear just out and about. What looks right at a highland games is different than what looks right for an outing at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. All fashion (not just highland fashion) is about the right look at the right place at the right time. There are all sorts of conventions and guidelines, and you can choose to break them...but be warned that when you go against them you might look daring...or you ,right look downright foolish!

Cheers

Jamie

[PatrickHughes123]

I acknowledge that the Ghillie Shirt is a recent innovation to Highland Dress, which I will wear by my own will, realizing that it may come with criticism, controversy and odd looks from other kilt wearers.

Because I failed to follow Highland Dress conventions, I apologize. I realize I should have did research before buying a kilt. I will continue to wear the Ghillie Shirt but with these personal rules taken from advice on this thread;

- No military feather plume.
- No full-dress sporran, a day sporran or at a stretch a hunting sporran.
- No fly plaid, only a day plaid is suitable.

Of course this will be for the next time I need to buy a new outfit.

Anyway, I've been thinking that maybe Ghillie Shirts are just another part of the development of Highland Dress. It is controversial in the present, but maybe in about 100 years time, it will be commonly worn as part of informal/casual Highland Dress despite the fact that it was introduced as a general fashion of the mid-20th Century as Tobus stated and then later became a part of Highland Dress/Kilt wearing. I know it is casual and informal today, but it isn't loved that much. I'm hoping this is what will happen, for them to become a normal part of Highland Dress, casually worn by a lot of people, loved and appreciated by everyone.

If my future sons or grandsons ever took up kilt wearing, I'd strongly insist/recommend/suggest that they wear their kilts with Ghillie Shirts.

[Tobus]

We are all a polyglot of influences and a mishmash of cultures, and rightfully honor them all. Outside the levels of dress, which are reasonably simple and clear, there is room for much variance. And much precedent.

Fair point, and agreed. But that's a bit of a red herring in this discussion. Since you quoted me in your reply, I'll assume you're responding to my input here. I think I have stated quite clearly that there is indeed much room for variance, did I not? It's a sort of disclaimer that has to be often repeated around here. In other words, you're rebutting a point I never made, since I did not state (nor did I imply) that there's only one way to wear the kilt.

The global diaspora's adaptations of kilt-wearing don't negate the fact that the kilt is known first and foremost as the cultural dress of the Scottish Highlands, with all the traditions which come with it. Understanding those traditions is a part of understanding what defines a "variance". Otherwise we end up with the tat shops steering the proverbial boat. That apparently has happened for a number of years, and brought us to the point where people genuinely think that the ghillie shirt is a proper bit of Highland attire, as Patrick's early posts had previously exemplified. It's one of the variances that has gained a foothold in some circles (I see the "grandfather shirt" as the next up-and-comer in this game, but that's a subject for a different day). If people like the ghillie shirt look, they're free to wear it. I never stated otherwise.

What happens more often than not is that people who are new to the kilt come to this forum and ask questions about how to wear it correctly. It's rather unhelpful to just tell them that there are no traditions, and to just figure it out however they see fit. No, I think the most helpful way to discuss wearing the kilt is to start with the original traditions, separate out the modern variances, and understand them all in perspective. People can then make up their minds as to which way they want to go with their own individual style. Do you find this unreasonable?

Thanks everyone for your input. I have no doubt that conventions for highland dress are extremely important and have no wish to contradict these. What I have seen, however, is an historical element of this site and a much more independent outlook towards kilt wearing. It seems that there were two distinct groups, those who wore casual kilts and those who wore a traditional form of attire. Nowadays the forum seems much more focussed on traditional highland dress and so does this mean that the casual dress wearers are no longer active here?

I have seen a decline in both groups over the years. We used to have some rather vocal proponents of modern kilts and "alternative" kilt styles. Alan H, the "father of the X-kilt" was one of them, and he truly delighted in arguing for practical modern kilts whilst guffawing at anything traditional. He has not been active lately. And likewise, we used to have a number of traditionalists like creagdhubh, Nathan, and others who left because they felt this forum did not appreciate the traditional viewpoint. Both camps have, at one time or another, felt like they were the minority. But it doesn't have to be a competition, where one side drowns out the voice of the other. This, unfortunately, is usually what it comes down to. People feel like they need to win the forum over so that everybody sees it their way. There's room for both.

I land pretty firmly in the traditionalist camp when it comes to tartan kilts. But I also own and wear a Utilikilt, so I'm appreciative of non-traditional styles as well. I would not attempt to dissuade people from wearing non-traditional styles, but I do think there's value in discussing where the lines are drawn. It benefits those who are trying to figure all of this out.