The joys and dangers of Ebay pipes

[Rama4390]

I also came across this set on eBay.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/29514089589...oAAOSwN89i7uur

I'm mostly looking to learn from the group - to me, this looks like a cheap set of pipes, particularly because of the color, the color of the wood under some of the wear-spots I think I see, the cords that may be nice but have a 'knock-off feel' to me, the color of the metal, and the pattern on it, which looks similar to so many cheap, knock off pipes I see.

I was surprised to see seven bids so far though, so from a learning perspective, I am curious of what you all thing, and curious to learn what I may have missed.

I did e-mail the seller, but am not expecting much, as they are a mass-selling Goodwill.

Thank you all,

Rob

The school band I was in 25 years ago bought a couple of sets of Pakistani pipes & they looked just like the ones you posted. In my mind, I can still smell the scent of the wood they were made from.

To be fair, those pipes by the time they were completely re-fitted with new bags, reeds, chords, covers & hemp were quite serviceable for beginners in a large band.

Cheers,
Luke.

[OC Richard]

WalesLax those are Pakistani 100%.

I just can't see the point in getting something like that when nice legit Scottish-made pipes are seen fairly often for around $500.

The last thing I would want to do is saddle a beginner with a set that is extremely touchy and difficult to get sound out of, and when you do it's not much of a sound.

EDIT: just checked and the lowest-priced quality Scottish made set on Ebay at the moment is this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16561784151...YAAOSwIsRi8W37

[WalesLax]

WalesLax those are Pakistani 100%.

I just can't see the point in getting something like that when nice legit Scottish-made pipes are seen fairly often for around $500.

The last thing I would want to do is saddle a beginner with a set that is extremely touchy and difficult to get sound out of, and when you do it's not much of a sound.

EDIT: just checked and the lowest-priced quality Scottish made set on Ebay at the moment is this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16561784151...YAAOSwIsRi8W37

I am completely onboard with your thoughts Hobgoblin (in the US) / Bagpipes Galore (in the UK) has low-priced delrin (?) pipes if someone needed something to get started with. I started on 'Frankenstein" pipes in my band, then bought my own.... then bought a set of poly pipes for bad-weather and bar gigs.... then bought a set to try to restore.... I'm in agreement though - why pay soo much to get a bad set to work when you could pay a little more (or less if you are patient) to get a good set that works.

Rob

[OC Richard]

I'm not a fan of the Bagpipes Galore pipes.

People learning deserve legitimate pipes that work right. People always talk about the "tone" but this overlooks an aspect that's just as important: the functionality (drones that strike in effortlessly, that are stable, that are air-efficient).

I think 3D printed bagpipes will be a game-changer for low-cost high-functioning instruments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6A7P_iUXM4

https://www.3dprintedbagpipes.com/pr...cks-and-stocks

[OC Richard]

Back to Ebay pipes, these are listed as Sinclair pipes with "carved bone" mounts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25568045305...Bk9SR97op4HYYA

I don't think they are Sinclairs, but they do seem to be very nice Scottish-made ABW pipes with mounts from a certain creature, and the pipes are already within the USA so there's no over-the-border issues.

Here's a lovely set said to be by Alan Logan (Inverness) who is a maker we here in the USA don't hear about much.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40383367620...Bk9SR97op4HYYA

They seem to be lovely pipes with classic profiles.

I've not knowingly played or heard Alan Logan pipes.

[OC Richard]

Wow crazy Frankenpipes for cheap!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29517661358...Bk9SR8rb7vXZYA

It would take some sussing to figure these out.

The bass midsection is Lawrie.

One tenor bottom is probably Robertson.

The three drone top sections seem to match, with catalin rings and possibly ivory bushes. It would be interesting to see if there are stamps in the cord guides.

The three bottom sections appear to be from three different makers.

Looks like some of the projecting mounts are ivory, some might be casein.

[WalesLax]

Wow crazy Frankenpipes for cheap!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29517661358...Bk9SR8rb7vXZYA

It would take some sussing to figure these out.

The bass midsection is Lawrie.

One tenor bottom is probably Robertson.

The three drone top sections seem to match, with catalin rings and possibly ivory bushes. It would be interesting to see if there are stamps in the cord guides.

The three bottom sections appear to be from three different makers.

Looks like some of the projecting mounts are ivory, some might be casein.

I am always impressed when people say “those look like Robertsons” or whatever they look like. My guess has been that that comes from years of looking at pipes, but this feels like a good place to ask - how do you do that? Is it the patterns on the beading and combing? The shape? Is there a guide to go to?

Rob

[OC Richard]

I'm not one of those guys who counts the number of teeth in the combing, that's beyond my knowledge.

I'm usually just looking at the obvious things, for example R G Lawrie did mounts in a unique (AFAIK) way.

A pipe maker/restorer told me these are done on a lathe: a sheet of German Silver/Cupro-Nickel/Nickel Silver is spun, and shaped with some sort of tool the turner holds in his hand.

The "bead" is integral to the mount, the same sheet of metal turned over itself.

People talk of the Lawrie "tapered mounts" and indeed they're usually tapered on later Lawries but keep in mind that each mount is spun by hand and each mount on the same set might have a slightly different taper than the rest.

Especially on early Lawries the sides of the mounts can be completely parallel, or nearly parallel.

Here's a set of Lawrie stocks where you can clearly see the typical Lawrie German Silver spun mounts, and see the varying degrees of taper.



On early Lawries these spun German Silver mounts sometimes are seen with this thistle pattern. A piper who is also a silversmith told me these aren't engraved, but rather the pattern is pressed into the sheet metal with a roller. Lawrie offered these in the early 20th century as a much cheaper alternative to engraved Sterling Silver mounts. (Modern pipers usually mistake these for engraved Sterling Silver mounts.)



Now about Robertson. As they say "Roberstons: Lots of wood. Lots of ivory. Lots of tone."

He used more ivory than any other maker before or since. The mounts are huge.

There are other Robertson traits, for one he often used Casein for mounts. Made of a milk protein, Casein unfortunately doesn't age well, and eventually degrades and literally falls apart. A pipe maker/restorer told me there's nothing that can be done other than slap some coating (lacquer? resin?) over it to seal it.

Another quirky mount style Robertson did was huge black plastic mounts (bakelite?).

And it wasn't just the mounts, the wood on Robertsons is chunkier than most makers.

On nearly all bagpipes the Bass top is larger than the Tenor tops, but Robertson would make the Tenor tops the larger Bass size, so that all three drone tops are the same, or nearly the same. (I've seen Robertsons which have had silver mounts added, the silver mounts having the standard thing of the Tenor tops being smaller than the Bass top, the wood on the Tenor tops crudely sticking out. If they had any sense the silversmith would make three Bass tops.)

Here's a Robertson Casein-mounted pipe so you can see how these various quirks come together to create a unique look.

Note the outsized Tenor tops and the massive mounts.

[OC Richard]

So with the above in mind, it's fairly obvious who some of the makers present in this Frankenpipe are:



Note with the Robertson Tenor bottom it's not just the huge bottom mount but also the deep narrow beads.

The Lawrie Bass midsection, and stocks, are obvious too.

Note that the three drone tops appear to match. Those wide flat cord guides remind me of Grainger & Campbell pipes. G&C pipes vary, but many have oddly small bass tops, wide flattish cord guides, chunky profiles, and stubby chunky projecting mounts.



And you can instantly tell that this stuff isn't all what the seller say it is

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11550899656...Bk9SR-am3ebdYA

[OC Richard]

Several Scottish-made sets on Ebay currently for well under a thousand dollars:

Frankenpipes around $460 many are afraid, but these a-la-carte pipes often sound good.

McCallum around $540

John Weston around $650

Hector Russell around $780 (a team of top makers worked for Hector Russell for the short period they sold pipes)

Alan Logan around $850