Scots-Irish

[SlackerDrummer]

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow here, I'm just trying to learn! But I do t think anyone has pointed out the distinct differences in culture between Scots-Americans and Scotch-Irish-Americans.
Is there any differences? Or are Scotch-Irish now basically Scots in America?

I would venture to guess that the large majority of Scotch-Irish (now largely intermarried with a variety of other ethnic-Americans) are not those attending Highland Games, etc. They are, at this point, just Americans. There may be some who embrace the Scottish-American scene, some who embrace the Irish-American scene, but I'd be willing to bet they are the exceptions to the rule. No one in my extended family, even among those interested in genealogy, is interested in either culture. I stopped playing punk rock and started playing in a pipe band about age 30 and since then my immediate family has become interested in the Scottish-American cultural scene, but that's as far as it goes (family lore aside). They have all (the Scotch-Irish lines) been Presbyterians, however, since they came to the colonies.

[McElmurry]

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow here, I'm just trying to learn! But I do t think anyone has pointed out the distinct differences in culture between Scots-Americans and Scotch-Irish-Americans.
Is there any differences? Or are Scotch-Irish now basically Scots in America?

This is a west coast perspective. Things may be different in the Ozarks or Texas or....

As lived on a day to day basis there is virtually no difference in culture assuming they have both been here 150 years or so. Scottish-Americans may play the pipes, do heavy athletics, wear the kilt in a traditional manner, and belong to the Saint Andrews Society. There is no equivalent for the Ulster-Scot-American other than the few Orange Lodges you pointed out. Some Ulster-Scot-Americans may adopt the culture of the Scots mentioned above.

When I was growing up there were a lot of western shows on TV. The vast majority of the cowboys and townsfolk were a mixture of English and Scotch-Irish. They were the quintessential American pioneer. For a bit of color the writers might throw in a Swede or a Scot or a French trapper with a bit of an accent.

Put another way. The Scots-Irish mixed with the English settlers are the lettuce in the salad bowl of US multiculturalism. They are the white pallet upon which the collage of multiculturalism is painted. They are the grout that supports and holds together the mosaic. Their government sees them as non-Hispanic white. They are un-ethnic.

[Blackrose87]

Very interesting posts. I suppose this forum gives a biased view on the American public. I'm starting to get the impression maybe Scots/Scotch-Irish/Irish/whatever heritage and culture arent as important aren't as to the majority of people as I previously thought.

Put another way. The Scots-Irish mixed with the English settlers are the lettuce in the salad bowl of US multiculturalism. They are the white pallet upon which the collage of multiculturalism is painted. They are the grout that supports and holds together the mosaic. Their government sees them as non-Hispanic white. They are un-ethnic.

I suppose you could say that those of English and Scotch-Irish descent have now just become un-hyphenated Americans.

[cessna152towser]

Or are Scotch-Irish now basically Scots in America?

I can't speak for USA but most of my relatives are of Scots and Irish descent and were born in Canada. Although they are interested in their ancestry they regard themselves as Canadians. I am perceived as something of a novelty in the family as I was born in Scotland and have remained in Scotland throughout my life. Within Canada my relatives have intermarried into First Nations families, also with Chinese, Fijian, Dutch, French, Ukrainian and Norwegian immigrants to Canada. During my planned visit to my cousin on Vancouver Island next month I intend to spend a day at the Victoria Scottish Games but I would be very surprised if any of the family choose to join me there.

[Bugbear]

Arthur Herman-ism.

[McElmurry]

I suppose you could say that those of English and Scotch-Irish descent have now just become un-hyphenated Americans.

Yes, I think that's right.

[McElmurry]

Arthur Herman-ism.

If that was aimed at my post I think we are talking at cross purposes. I was going more for faded into the background as opposed to exceptionalism.

[Bugbear]

If that was aimed at my post I think we are talking at cross purposes. I was going more for faded into the background as opposed to exceptionalism.

I'm sorry, it was to what Blackrose87 was saying, and I should have quoted his post.

More a critisism of Arthur Herman than anyone on the forum: How the Scots Invented the Modern World, book.

[Blackrose87]

I'm sorry, it was to what Blackrose87 was saying, and I should have quoted his post.

More a critisism of Arthur Herman than anyone on the forum: How the Scots Invented the Modern World, book.

What I was saying?

Sorry, I thought I was only summarising what the previous posts had basically said. I don't have any reference points to just American culture, and was only going on what I've read here.

I've never read the book, but from a brief synopsis, I can't see how it relates to what I said.

[Deil the Yin]

As a 1/2-hillbilly bluegrass-er I'll have to wade in on a technical yet poignant point here, to wit: Bluegrass, the popular genre begun by Bill Monroe in the 1940's South, is actually a separate music group from what is considered "mountain music," though they might often sound very similar as mountain music is generally the base layer of blue grass with a good smattering of country-blues mixed in (depending on who you're listening to). In addition, much of "mountain music" IS directly taken from the folk songs of the British Isles (I will refer you to Ms Jean Richie's Field Trip album). Many times the lyrics are altered to reflect the new local, but they are nonetheless very strongly related. One of the best examples I know is Shady Grove: what many folk will recognise as a traditional Blue Grass song but that was taken from traditional mountain music (just give some extra country-blues licks possibly) and before that was an English/British folk song. In fact I heard the Scottish trad band Session A9 play a version of it in Inverness at the Highland festival there. When I recounted the fact that it was a traditional Bluegrass song to one of the band members, he turned his nose up and said it was actually an English folk song, though he also admitted the band's source for it was The Grateful Dead, of whom Gerry Garcia had his own Bluegrass band called Old and in the Way. Hmmmm...

There are also similar studies being done now on the musical traditions in those same groups, comparing/contrasting the original tunes found in Scotland/England/Ireland and the variations found in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and Appalachia. Bluegrass music (once known as 'mountain music'), in particular, is thought to have evolved from some of the folk tunes brought over by the Scots-Irish in the various waves of emigration.

ADDENDUM: And so as not to seemingly hijack this interesting post, I will also concur with the point of view that the term "Scots-Irish" began as a historical reference similar to the term Celts etc, but eventually trickled into more common usage outside of academia. I would also, if I may, inject another counterpoint to some of this thread's contributors who have insinuated that Southerners do not have a legitimate claim to their Scots-Irish/Scottish/Irish/etc heritage based apparently(?) on the proportion of these settlers to their English counterparts and the homogenisation of same with settlers of other nationalities, eg Germans, French-Huguenots etc. While I won't say these points aren't true, I believe that- as in the auld sod where Scots and other Celtic populations contributed to the "greater" society/culture of the nation disproportionately to their numbers- so too have the cultural and ethnic traits of our Irish/Scots/Scots-Irish ancestors shown through despite a disproportionate population and cross-breeding with other nationalities. In addition (and just to throw a little twist in there), with the strong propensity of Southerners to cling to heritage and tradition, I believe some among the Southern population can refer to themselves, arguably of course, as "American-Scots," as I do. It is also my belief that the American South could in many ways be considered, again- certainly arguably, as a Celtic Nation.

DISCLAIMER: I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here; I didn't read through all 15 pages before posting this... (apologies if so).