Military tartans

[bubba]

I agree. The name on a T-shirt is fine, but insignia are earned, just as unit patches, service ribbons and decorations. They should never be taken lightly.

[Mike n NC]

I guess we will continue to agree to disagree over the "claim" to tartans. I still have to go by "wear what you like, like what you wear". That said, I completed my 30 years in Aug 2001 and was placed on the permanent retired list, could not (even with pulling strings) get back in after 9/11. All that time was spent as a Navy Hospital Corpsman, much of it with the Marines, so I figure you guys won't grouse too much if I want to wear the USMC tartan.

Barb, or anyone else that might know, I got a question for you. The USN tartan shown on the site you gave is not the one I want. I am looking for the Polaris tartan since I was also in the Submarine Service. I have found several places that show it but don't stock it and one that stocks it but is real proud of it, if you know what I mean. Know any good sources?

By the way, the Polaris tartan is the only tartan currently worn by any active duty U. S. military unit as an official uniform.

Mike

[Barb T]

Well, good question. Linda Clifford has yardage (http://www.lindaclifford.com/Polaris.html), but I don't know whether that's the one you found and were subtly commenting on price. I called to ask about it, and it's 11.5 oz. I rather boldly asked what mill wove it, and I was told that it is a "private stock". I presume that she had a batch woven as a custom weave and is selling it until the stock runs out, which is why the web site indicates a limited time offer.

You've also probably found the following discussion of the Polaris tartan (http://www.electricscotland.com/tartans/story3.htm; http://www.trygstad.org/polaris.jpg), which refers to the fabric stocked by Linda Clifford.

Has anyone found other sources??

Barb

[Mike n NC]

Thanks Barb. Yes I've read the debate and I'm going by what I saw at the sub base in Scotland. Black, Royal, Black. I just don't remember the sky in there, not that it's a bad looking tartan. Her price is somewhat less for double wide than the other site I found wants for single. Was I too subtle? Try this, "They wanted a freaking arm and leg for it not to mention my first born".

Being somewhat the newbie to construction, someone help me out here. Is there a big difference in double width vs. single?

Wanders away muttering to myself...I shoulda bought one in the exchange when I was there, they were only 200 bucks at the time...

Mike

[RockyR]

You can probably get it special woven in whatever weight you want (depending on how much you're willing to spend). Most mills have a minimum of 15 yards, but we found a couple with a 4 yard minimum (in the US no less!).

[Barb T]

Mike said

Being somewhat the newbie to construction, someone help me out here. Is there a big difference in double width vs. single?

Not exactly sure what you mean by difference, so I'll say a couple of things, some of which you probably already know. Double width kilting fabric is typically 56-58" wide with two good selvedges, which allows you buy 4 yards, rip it in half (lengthwise!), and make an 8-yard kilt with no hem. You just hide the seam inside the center back pleat, and no one knows that you've pieced together two sections.

This works well for _almost_ all tartans. Asymmetric tartans like Hunting Stewart, Buchanan, Campbell of Argyll, and Dress Campbell are a real problem in double width, but only about a dozen of the hundreds of commonly-available tartans are asymmetric. So, normally, you can easily make an 8-yard kilt from 4 yards of double width fabric. BTW - the Polaris is symmetric.

Single width fabric is typically about 28" wide, with one good selvedge. If you buy single width fabric, you have to buy a full 8 yards for an 8-yard kilt.

Because labor is costly in comparison to materials, a yard of single width is _almost_ as expensive as a yard of double-width (not quite, but close - Lochcarron's wholesale US prices last year were about $39/yard double width and about $33/yard single width). So, you can see that there's quite a savings in being able to buy 4 yards of double width for an 8-yard kilt. The tartan for an 8-yard kilt would cost $156 if you used double width and about $264 if you used single width.

D. C. Dalgiesh in Selkirk, Scotland will do a custom weave of any tartan in single kilt lengths in 11-12 oz and 16 oz. They do beautiful work, but it is expensive.

Peter Wilson (The Scottish Weaver) in North Carolina does custom weaving, but I don't know what his minimum length is nor what he charges. He also commonly has kilt-length remnants in a smattering of tartans. Just be careful to check the weight.

Cheers!

Barb

[RockyR]

D. C. Dalgiesh in Selkirk, Scotland will do a custom weave of any tartan in single kilt lengths in 11-12 oz and 16 oz. They do beautiful work, but it is expensive.

Peter Wilson (The Scottish Weaver) in North Carolina does custom weaving, but I don't know what his minimum length is nor what he charges. He also commonly has kilt-length remnants in a smattering of tartans. Just be careful to check the weight.

I made a "Premier Kilt" in Fitzpatrick Modern (not the white dress one that is much more common) for a customer and got the fabric from D.C. Dalgiesh. Very nice people and a good product.

Peter Wilson at Great Scot (aka the Scottish Weaver) is a RIOT... that's where I got the Confederate Memorial for "Mike in NC". Backing up what Barb said... make sure you know what weight you want and are getting. Same goes for Strathmore... the T7 weight is pretty light for kilting material (it's about a 10.5 to 11 oz). Make sure you get material in the W60 weight (about 13 OZ). Both places provide wonderful product... it's just the weight you have to be careful of.

On a related note... some people WANT 10 to 11 OZ wool. I've run into some people in the lower 48 states who complain that 13 and (especially) 16 oz wools are too hot in the summer. Some are pipers in competition, some are just regular kilt wearers. Some actually prefer PV or 11 oz wool as it's lighter and more "suitable" to their climate.

[Riverkilt]

Head games for me...my service was so "puny" cold war stuff, Vietnam was a fear, not a reality...

Wear a few Marine tshirts not so much for my service as for my late brother, who was a D.I., to support the current crop of Marines on the line, and to remind others that the kick **** outfit is out there for us.

Have considered the leatherneck tartan over and over and so far keep coming up with the same answer...the codependent one...that if I wore it folks would think I was flouting my service...so I haven't.

Egos are a funny thing, especially mine.

I do have a replia War I Army jacket that I wear sometimes with the rainbow War I service ribbon in honor of my great uncle Charles Scott who was never quite right when he came back from service in France.

My father flew for the RAF in England in '42 and the USAAC (North African Costal Air Force) in '43. I'd wear those tartans, if they existed, in a heartbeat.

Ron

[beerandtat2s]

With all the selections possible, I think that you can find another option without the military tartans unless you have served or have some connection to that unit of service. I looked long and hard at several kilt makers before having my US Navy Edzel made. Jars of Lochl. made me a fantastic 9 yard that I truly love. I enjoy wearing my USA Kilts almost daily, I enjoy the utilikilts on my way to and from rugby matches, but the Jars with a black Mess Dress Jacket with full medals is tough to beat for looks and comfort.

James Calvert
MMC(SW/AW) USN

[Mike n NC]

Morn'in Chief.
Yep, I decided on the Edzell in place of the Polaris, at least until the dollar gets back up. I near choked on $80 per yard special order and it seems there is only one mill that will make it. In the spirit of trying different makers, I'm having mine done by Alexis Malcolm. There are some good pictures of her work with the Edzell on her web page, http://www.alexismalcolmkilts.bigstep.com/homepage.html Full report and pics to follow delivery.

That's my idea exactly, Mess Dress Blue over a kilt and if it were the Polaris I would include a Fly Plaid. (Since the Edzell is second choice I'm skipping the plaid) Thinking this year's submarine ball would be a good place to showcase it.
Though it won't be "uniform", I'm even looking altering a choker white jacket for wear without medals and devices. I'll let ya know the result.

Mike HMC(SS)USN,Ret