How old is a tradition?

[fluter]

Fortunately, my clan/heritage has a strong tradition: Despite Them!

Well put. :-)

I'd simply add that every observation about rules, conventions, written or unwritten would be equally valid if we substitute the word (pardon the expression) "troosers" for "kilt."

[gilmore]

...
There is also the British common law that anything twice done becomes a tradition....

Huh? Where did you hear that?

[gilmore]

How long it takes something to become a tradition depends on where you are.

In most of the UK, it takes at least 200 years.

In the American South it takes 300 years.

In the US east coast, it takes about 100 years.

On the US West Coast, it can take up to 20 minutes.

[Coinneach]

On the US West Coast, it can take up to 20 minutes.

But...why wait so long?

[gilmore]

But...why wait so long?

You have a point. Twenty minutes or until the espresso is brewed, whichever comes first.

[Archangel]

Huh? Where did you hear that?

You are in a mood today, aren't you.

Google it!

[gilmore]

You are in a mood today, aren't you.

Google it!

Anglo-American common law is law created by the courts and is followed as precedence, as opposed to statutory law created by legislative bodies. I really doubt that any court would come up with a holding that "anything twice done becomes a tradition."

[Archangel]

Anglo-American common law is law created by the courts and is followed as precedence, as opposed to statutory law created by legislative bodies. I really doubt that any court would come up with a holding that "anything twice done becomes a tradition."

There is no such thing as Anglo American "common law". Two separate countries sharing an arbitrary law structure, highly unlikely don't you think?

I'm not even sure that America, the U.S., has such a thing as "common law". I have the feeling that part of the uprising in 1766 was to get rid of that.

The UK does, although that is being reduced. It's still strong in Scotland's law. I hope somebody in the UK can update us on that.

You can google it to find the references, I did, successfully.

In any case, this is taking us away from the topic and the point of my original post.

To paraphrase Monty Python: contradiction/challenge (tracking your posts today) is not conversation. The debate paradigm says that you should posit your counter, i.e. provide where in British law tradition is defined. Then I defend my statement, etc. That way we both learn something.

Your call, until then, I'm "standing down" and not getting drawn in further.

[majdan]

"So, as you dress, think of who you might offend. If you don't want to offend them, dress accordingly. If it doesn't matter, dress as you like."


Well put. As you said latter, that's one of the things I love about the kilt, Change your shirt and change your level of formality. I'm going off for the weekend and I have my kilt, a 2 polo shirts, a 2 dress shirts, a tweed jacket, neck tie, hose, shoes, belt and sporran. With these I can cover any dress requirements that I could possibility encounter.

[Makeitstop]

It's not about time at all. Traditions exist only in the mind, and therefore only in the present.

They are one aspect of our natural tendency to seek order and structure in life. From the time we are born, we see patterns in the world around us, and internalize them into expectations. As these expectations are reinforced, they become entrenched and we begin to view them as the rules rather than the trends.

Some of these fall under the category of traditions. The biggest difference between tradition and other norms is that we are more aware of the traditions. We understand the tradition consciously (as opposed to many unwritten rules which are entirely subconscious until they are broken) and we know that they exist in the context of a culture. There is usually an expectation that traditions are old, but that is more about our way of thinking that it's the way it is and always has been, rather than a need to be old for the sake of being old.

But there is another factor related to time which is significant; The power a tradition holds is based largely on it's acceptance. If others around us follow the tradition, it becomes reinforced. The more it gets reinforced, the more important it seems. Since it takes time for a tradition to spread, older traditions are far more likely to be widespread, and therefore are more likely to become reinforced and hold more power over us.

And of course, when we make up a tradition, it is impossible for us to believe that it is the way it is and always has been. Even though every tradition was made up at some point, we are only bothered by this when it's arbitrary origin is so obvious to us that we cannot deny it. Out of sight, out of mind.

And of course, traditions learned as children are far more important to us. This is partly because the longer we hold on to a tradition, the more entrenched it becomes, and partly because as children we absorb norms more quickly and deeply than later in life.

The point is, it is only a tradition because we believe it is a tradition. If I make up a tradition and tell it to a friend, not mentioning that it didn't exist a moment ago, then in his mind, it is a tradition. And should we spread this tradition, it's hold over the people will grow. If we get millions of people believing this tradition, it will be as significant as any other, regardless of whether it has been around for a week, or 1000 years.