Thoughts on the whole "men in skirts" movement.

[Graham]

Interesting discussion and a topic worth considering. Some may be happy to shrug it off with "folks is folks" but I think it's good to look a little deeper into the topic.

As Bear said, the kilt relates to feelings of manliness, when I wear a kilt I do feel more masculine. If some feel that it is a feminine thing - that's their problem. I'll not have my views or customs altered or dictated by the distorted views of a few.
Kilts have been around for hundreds of years, their reputation has been firmly established, and while I accept that they must evolve a bit - that will never change the well used adage "Real men wear Kilts".

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think this is one of the challenges faced by the contemporary kilt makers out there.

In my experience, the great majority of people know what a kilt is. Even if they don't have any real knowledge of the kilt, or have seen one in person, they know that it's that "plaid skirt that Scottish men wear" or something along those lines. Meaning that if you are wearing a traditional Scottish kilt, with kilt hose, sporran, et al, most everyone who sees you will say, "Hey, there's a Scotsman in a kilt." Chances are slim to none that anyone will think you are a transvestite when you are dressed this way.

Now, we have contemporary kilts that have been put on the market in the past 10 or 20 years that each, in their own way, differ from the traditional norm. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing. I'm only pointing out that the more different a contemporary kilt is from a traditional kilt, the more likely it becomes that people will not recognize it as a kilt at all and then you are more apt to have issues with people getting the wrong impression.

I wonder, have any of the contemporary kilt makers on this board dealt with this issue in the past?

Matt

[Tiran]

I have never understood why a group that goes on so much about freedom and bravery get so worked up when someone, even obliquely questions their masculinity. Why the hell should you care? If I am wearing a kilt or an A-line skirt, whats the difference? If you need outside symbols to confirm your masculintiy you have bigger issues.
As for a movement? If that is what someone is trying to do, they suck at it. If I hadn't wandered through tom's cafe a couple years ago I wouldn't be aware there was one. That shoudl be the first sign its not working. With an issue like this, grassroots, word of mouth, like what many people here are doing is the best bet. It will either organically reach the tipping point and become what you are apparently hoping for, or it won't. Short of legislation or multi million dollar marketing campaigns that is your only choice.
Forgive me if I seem a little harsh, but this has been bugging me for a while since I started reading some of these forums. It is not meant as a personal attack on any one person here, just a comment on an overall attitude I have perceived reading a lot of posts in a short period. It is late, I am tired and getting cranky, so I will sign off and go to bed now.

[Scotus]

Matt, I agree. The contemporary kilts even remind me of skirts. I don't think people see them as kilts. Let me draw an analogy.

The Roman cassock, a male garment, is the garment of the Roman Catholic priest. As some may know, there are now girl altar "boys" in the Catholic Church (not at my parish). Sometimes you see them in little cassocks; therefore, you have little girls in a male garment. In former times, the boys saw nothing wrong with wearing a cassock. All boys knew that the cassock was a male garment and it was worn by the priest, bishop, and the pope. But, as soon as the little girls started wearing the cassock, it looked more and more like a dress to the boys.

With the kilt, the same thing can be said. I think that's why some people object to women wearing kilts and men wearing contemporary kilts. These seem to blur the line between male and female garments.

The point I am trying to make with the cassock, women wearing traditional kilts, and men wearing contemporary kilts is it seems that further confusion is added by men wearing garments that are actually meant for women. I am totally opposed to that "movement," for lack of a better word.

[GMan]

Totally agree with you Daz, one definetly has to be comfortable with who they are.

[Mike n NC]

Personally, I have come to not give a fuzzy rats pittute about what other people think of me in a kilt. I know what I like and what I am and I am confidant in it. I'm sure that some others wear kilts or skirted garments for their own reasons, I just say "more power to'em" and figure their reasons are their own.

I've only had two occasions with others that I considered ugly. One was a 30 something trying to impress his kid, the other a couple of young gentlemen that were just looking for touble, the kilt had nothing to do with it. In both instances these people quickly changed there minds and went away when presented with my enlightened prespective. Paul you asked for this explination in an earlier thread so if you are reading this, here it is.

Unlike Wilter I do not use a cane, I do however carry a walking stick made from a hickory root. It is 40" long and 1 1/2" inches thick at the small tip. It is small enough that I can comfortably carry it anywhere, like a cane, but big enough to ummm, persuade. Not being a vindictive sort, I do hope the young man in Atlanta is out of the cast soon. I do also hope that he learns to choose his friends more carefully in the future since his companion seemed to remember that he needed to be someplace else and left without offering to help him. Being the kind and benevolent person that I am, I did at least drag him out of the way before I backed out of the parking place.

All in all, my experience with other people while kilted is very, very positive. It's not unusual to have people ask to take my picture or have their picture taken with me. Gotta hate this, somewhere there is a picture of me in a group hug with the entire shift of wait staff at a Hooter's. Comments and compliments are frequent and almost always positive.

Mike

[Blu (Ontario)]

Regardless of who we are, everyone has an agenda. This is a very personal thing. My main interests and goals, hot button issues, acceptance threshold, and tolerance envelope are going to be different from everyone else's. Personally, I do not consider MIS/TV significant in my world. While I believe in the freedom of people to engage in whatever extracurricular activities they please, I stick to my own agenda and let the chips fall. So far at least, it's served me well.

People are a naturally herding species and tend to gravitate to others who share common interests. For the past year, I have posted strictly on this board. However, in the past, I have posted on another forum which was, at the time, a colorful blend of kilts and MIS. Everyone got along for the most part. After a significant shift of that board to a more fem - fetish direction, my tolerance envelope was breached and I bailed. I just did not want to be associated with that agenda in any way. Others may feel differently and share interests from both worlds. Ipso facto, there is going to be overlapping agendas within any large group of people. As long as these two worlds are kept asunder, I'm happy. It's just a fact of life in this world that there is going to be some cross contamination from the other, but this must be dealth with on an individual case basis. Kilts will continue to survive and thrive. As for the other... I just don't give a _____!

[KMacT]

I think if your going to step outside the sphere of what (in most other peoples perception) is "normal" then you have to expect some kind of reaction- its only natural for people to wonder why your wearing the kilt, and whilst you answer to no one as to what you can and cant wear, most people outside of Scotland dont know anything about the history or facts about the kilt.

I agree with this, although I would use the word "common" instead of "normal."

...some people would use the word "homophobe" I cant stand this word its bandied about to much and doesnt mean anything, other than someone with an irrational fear of the word "homo"

"Homo" is from the Latin for "same," as distinct from "hetero" which is from the Latin for "different." "Phobia" is from the Greek word for "fear." "Homophobe" is a perfectly good word - fear of sameness.

Kevin

[highlander_Daz]

Agreed, however,I did mean when used in the context that it is normally used i.e. someone who discrimnates/ has a dislike of homosexuality, does anyone remember the washing powder that was called "OMO".

what I meant was that anyone who expresses and opinion that reflects negatively on the gay community is instantly branded a "homophobe".

in case anyone wonders Im not making negative comments about any section of the community be it cross dressers or gay people, Im just saying that I dont like taboos and its good to debate and discuss. I think to ridicule people because they are gay or cross dressers or they like star trek or whatever is as bad as ridiculing someone for wearing the kilt, simply not acceptable, however i thinks its reasonable to discuss the subject. for example Immigration is a big deal at the moment in the UK and anyone who expresses negative views is branded a "racist" or a "nazi" (I hate that word!) - if we debated subjects in a reasonable way without hysterics then I think we would get answers and understandings quicker.

[RockyR]

I'm not comfortable with the whole concept of a "movement" in the first place. I don't need a movement or cause and generally ignore the whole concept. I wear kilts because I want to wear kilts. There's no need for some cause to legitimize being comfortable.

As Bear said, the kilt relates to feelings of manliness, when I wear a kilt I do feel more masculine. If some feel that it is a feminine thing - that's their problem. I'll not have my views or customs altered or dictated by the distorted views of a few.

BOTH of you (and a few others) are spot on in my opinion. WHO CARES what others think? Aren't we supposed to be "alpha males"? If you're not hurting anyone, do whatever the heII you WANT to do. Wear whatever you WANT to wear... MOST people LOVE a guy in a kilt. If SOME people have a negative opinion, f- 'em. That's THEIR PROBLEM... don't make it yours!

I was getting lunch at our grocery store the other day with Kelly. I had gotten my stuff and she was still in line. 2 girls in front of her (25 to 30 years old) were talking about the gay guy in the skirt (meaning me in my wool kilt). Kelly was getting mad, but said nothing. When she told me about it, I just shrugged. WHO CARES what other less educated people think?

If you know me on a personal level, you know I can have a somewhat "harsh" demeanor / appearance on occasion. If you want to get to know me and can handle my "antics", then GREAT! If my appearance scares you away, EVEN BETTER! That's the type of person I WANT to repel. They're weak and judgemental and prejudice. 3 things I hate.