"I'm sorry Sir, with respect, but no!"

[GMan]

This is rather interesting. Funny yes, but sorry to see that old misconceptions about people that happened many years ago still linger.

[Big Paul]

It's a little sad, but a lot funny!!!

[Mike1]

We all know what went on a Glencoe, but you cant be held responsible for the sins of the fathers. not all Campbells are Traitors.

Daz, I am always amazed at how the hatreds born of Glencoe carry on through the generations as they do, but some carry on because of misunderstandings. For that very reason, I think it is wrong to, as you suggest, move on.

If we are going to assign blame for the massacre of some 38 people at Glencoe, then let's at least know enough about the massacre to make a fair assignment.

Granted, there was bad blood between the Campbells and MacIan of Glen Coe, but was it a Campbell decision to swoop in and kill everyone in sight?

Or does that blame need to rest on the parties that were actually behind it all - William of Orange and the Master of Stair, Secretary of State Sir John Dalrymple?

And the thing that really bothers me about all this is there are members of the House of Donald that are now Googling who Stair actually was. And they likely know nothing about the Campbell piper that stood outside at an unholy hour, in a snowstorm, 'practicing' his piping. How many people survived, because of this warning?

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am more than aware of how treacherous the 'crook-mouths' could be. You see, nearly 46 years prior to the massacre at Glen Coe, 250+ members of the Lamont family were murdered, some even buried alive, while both Ascog and Toward were destroyed at the hands of the Campbells. After the crook-mouths had signed terms of capitulation, guaranteeing the Lamonts safe passage, no less. I've stood at Tom-A-Mhoid (the Hill of Judgement) in Dunoon and experienced the variety of emotions you might expect. I've walked the ruins of Toward, trying to understand how brutal existence must have been in the 17th century.

There is more on the Lamont massacre located HERE.

Would I refuse to shake the hand of a Campbell? No. I may hasten to wash my hand after, however...

Remember who you are today and that without the events of the past, you would likely not be who or where you are. Do I feel great joy at things like the murder of so many Lamonts or my family being proscribed and ultimately clearanced? No, I certainly do not. But where would I be, had all those events not happened as they did?

I'm moving this one to Off-Topic, as it really has little to do with General Kilt Talk. ;)

[Big Dave]

I'm pretty sure that most of us B.C.er's wouldn't shake Gordon Campbells hand either. Not for the name of Campbell, but because the guy is a bloody crook. But that might just be me.:grin:

[bubba]

My mother belongs to the DAR and there's a Campbell lady in her chapter. They tease each other often about the Campbells vs MacDonalds among other old feuds but they're good friends. It's good to remember the history and the old events but for us in the Americas, it's a new land and was a new start. We can leave the old hostilities behind.

[bjcustard]

One of the places I visited this year in Scotland was Glen Coe.

I was amazed to find that the Visitors Center (just outside the village of Glen Coe, about a mile) had no marker, no monument, nothing regarding the Massacre. When I asked one of the workers, they quietly told me it was "back in the village".

I drove back, and drove through the village. About half a mile down a dead-end road, with no signs nor indications, I found the marker. After I almost drove past it a second time.

The attitudes in the Visitors Center and the lack of advertisment regarding the location would indicate to me that the reaction the event triggers is still present and alive. I mean, you can walk around the battlefield at Culloden (which I did), watch a presentation, shop in the gift shop. In Contrast, the Glen Coe Monument was almost hidden...

[highlander_Daz]

mike I know excacly how strong feelings run about the events that you refer to. And I wouldnt seek to play down any of the events, just becasue they happened long ago doesnt make them any less disgraceful, Murder and betrayal was part of the Highland clans, many clan chiefs were "gangsters" in many ways interested in land, livestock etc. When I say "move on" I mean we should remember the events and learn form it, but bear in mind that the people who carried out these events are long dead, and its unfair to hold todays generation of Campbells responsible. As I Cameron I have every reason to have issues with the campbells, but I prefer to look forward and see an independant Scotland where fueds and sectarianism is left behind.

Im more concerned that yet another generation has been fed all this anti-Cambell "History".
Im appaled that some people could describe this situation as "funny" if he was refusing to shake tha hand of a Jew, or black person or any other group we would be rightly appaled. but to refuse to shake the hand of someone because of his name??

I get the impression that this man is not a popular politician, but is that still reason to stoop? People are entitled to beliefs and views and politics, I would stiil not see that as a reason not to shake someones hand because it brings me down a level.
Id love to know if this young man knew ALL the facts about issues with the Campbells or weather he just has been told

"Oh you have to hate the Campbells cos your a McDonald"

" you have to het the Germans if your a Jew"????
"you have to hate the blacks if your white"???
"You have to Hate the English if your a Scot"???
"You have to hate Rangers fans if you support Celtic"?
"you have to hate Muslims of your a christian"?
"you have to hate America if your a musim"?

have we got a pattern emerging here??

I know we dont like politics on Xmarks and feel free to moderate my reply by all means but Its better can we remember the events of the past, no matter how disgraceful, with dignity.

[flyv65]

My mother belongs to the DAR and there's a Campbell lady in her chapter. They tease each other often about the Campbells vs MacDonalds among other old feuds but they're good friends. It's good to remember the history and the old events but for us in the Americas, it's a new land and was a new start. We can leave the old hostilities behind.

I agree whole-heartedly, Bubba: learn from the past, but don't be ruled by it. I have a friend who is a Campbell (among other things), and it's much the same for us as for your mother and her friend; some ribbing, and a bit of back and forth needling now and again.

Bryan...but I *still* make him buy me a beer on February 13th...

[minimalistix]

Im more concerned that yet another generation has been fed all this anti-Cambell "History".
Im appaled that some people could describe this situation as "funny" if he was refusing to shake tha hand of a Jew, or black person or any other group we would be rightly appaled. but to refuse to shake the hand of someone because of his name??

Just to clarify, I meant funny because he was a politician and the one who refused was a kid. If someone is holding a real grudge (not the needling and joking harassment we do with friends) from the 400 years ago they need their head examined, not to mention a history lesson. What groups like the Saxons, and even the Mongolians, did from centuries before make the Glencoe thing look like a school kid fight by comparison. Regardless it is interesting history which needs to be understood through the context of the time.

Now being that evidently I'm a descendant of a Campbell, who's going to let me stay at their house when I'm in Scotland. I promise I won't murder the whole family. Well maybe just steal the horses and burn down the house though. ;) [kidding about needing a place to stay also, but not burning the house down, well ok, I'm kidding about that too.]

[Mike1]

Murder and betrayal was part of the Highland clans, many clan chiefs were "gangsters" in many ways interested in land, livestock etc.

Daz, you might be surprised how much 'authority' (for want of a better term) people here in North America are willing to grant to a 'clan chief'. When, in so many cases, that chief's ancestors may well have sold out their own family.

How does the line go? "The hills and glens have been cleared of men, to make way for the Great, White Sheep."

Oh well, maybe a few folk will take the time to learn a bit more about what really happened at Glencoe, so the myth can lose a bit of its romance.