Sgian/Pride

[Panache]

I've worn my kilt 2-3 times a week since August, everytime with a sgian dubh. If they don't approve of it, I'm sure somebody would've let me know.

Just because someone hasn't noticed it doesn't make it any less against the rules. Much like driving in the Carpool lane by yourself when the Highway patrol isn't around. Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it OK. You have chosen to ignore a particular rule that you wholeheartedly agree that other people should follow. It's something to think about.

And to the rest of you: I'm hoping to get a sgian brew for Christmas. I've always wanted one, but haven't had the money to get a real nice one (i.e. one of Rab Gordon's). I'm pretty sure it would be more useful than the sgain dubh...especially in college!!!

Wait till you have had a lovely lady reaching her hand slowly down your leg to
borrow your bottle openner! Highly recommended

Cheers

[Joe Gondek]

I always carry my sgain dubh when kilted
just as my pocket knife is a part of me when I wear pants.
A knife is just handy to have with you and I generally put it to use several times a day.

[Scott Gilmore]

... Then he asked why I wear my kilt at all. ... I told him because I am tremdiously proud of my heritage and I like to wear them. ...

I love being Scottish, and despite the fact that my family has been in America since 1862, sometimes I feel like bursting with pride when I wear my kilt, or play my pipes, or taste a fine Scotch, or hear the gorgeous accent. ...

As I read it, this thread deals with two topics in the following order: Wearing a sgian dhu and pride -- in this case, pride in one's heritage.

I'll leave discussion of sporting a ceremonial knife to others. What follows are some observations on the second topic: pride. This is clearly on topic for this thread, and if conducted politely, offers us an opportunity to learn from each other without violating the rules of this forum.

So, to emphasize, this is not meant to be inflammatory. It is meant to be a sincere exchange of ideas on an often used topic. Mr. Long, I think I understand the sentiments you expressed, and I feel similarly. However, many people assume that the concept of pride is just simply understood when it is brought up here or in a forum about one's heritage (which this is, kind of).

But I'm not so sure about that.

Maybe the best way to broach this is to ask some questions. Please think about your answers before reading the remainder of this post.

The point of the following questions is ONLY to get you thinking. Please please PLEASE do not post direct responses to these questions. They are rhetorical. Please stay on topic: pride as discussed in this thread.

• Why are you proud of your heritage?
• If you are or were a serviceman, are you proud of your service? Why? (If you have not been in the service, think about why a serviceman might be proud of his/her service.)
• Are you proud of you race? (Note that this is different than "ethnic" pride.) Why? ***THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF RACIAL PRIDE, IT'S A DISCUSSION OF PRIDE, AND PRIDE IN ONE'S RACE IS JUST ONE SMALL COMPONENT OF THAT TOPIC.***
• If you could be characterized as belonging to a group that has been historically socially ostracized or oppressed such as gays/lesbians/transsexuals or similar, are you proud of your association with that group? Why?
• Are you proud to wear a kilt? Why?
• Have you or someone close to you been recognized for a contribution to society? Examples might be a Pulitzer or Nobel prize, or the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Are you proud of this? Why?

If you given the above questions about pride some though, I ask you to reflect on the following.

In my view, pride is a just sentiment that can be entertained - even indulged - when it has been earned. I did not earn my ethnic or racial heritage. I was born this way - I had no choice in the matter. Pride is often used a little too loosely in this context. More on this in a moment.

Those of you that have served your country have, in my view, earned the right to be proud of your service. Those of you who have family who have served have earned the right to be proud of your family for having served.

The point is that real pride is earned. One may take great joy and comfort in one's heritage, race, the shape of your nose, whatever - but strictly speaking, within the context of this discussion, not pride.

Whoa! Easy there! Hear me out.

Having said that, I think I understand Mr. Long's assertion of pride as stated above: "I love being Scottish." Gregory, do I understand correctly that you take pride in the accomplishments of your fore bearers (which, after all, got you to where you are today), who were at least in part descended from Scots? Also, do you take great joy in the unique character that your ethnicity brings to your sense of self? Do you identify strongly with your Scottish heritage not only because of who you descended from, but also because of what other Scots have accomplished? A sort of national pride-by-proxy?

If so, then we are of the same mind. I take pride in the accomplishments of my father's family - the Scottish side (Ulster-Scots, actually). As it happens, I also bear a distinct ethnic appearance which emphasizes this side of my family. I like that, but then, I'm vain.

But I am also half Brazilian. My mother was born and raised in the state of Pernambuco of parents who had emigrated from Avila in north central Spain. While I was born in Pittsburgh, I was raised from infancy in São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. My first language was Portuguese. I feel a similar sense of pride in the accomplishments of my mother's family. I don't look too Brazilian though, so to be perfectly honest, I don't identify with my Iberian heritage as strongly as I do my Celtic heritage.

Until World Cup time rolls around. Or Saturday feijoada followed by a nice caipiriña. Or I listen to Beth Carvalho or any good bosa nova or any batucada.

Seriously though, to take this a step further, let's touch briefly on the prickly subject of racial pride. Calm down! This is a friendly discussion! I bring this up merely to give our discussion of pride some context. This isn't a shallow subject.

Strictly speaking, according to what I said above, racial pride is an invalid argument. But just as we allow latitude in proclaiming pride in our heritage, so should we (in my opinion) allow latitude when some people proclaim racial pride. Specifically, where it is earned, though obliquely, by one's family suffering hundreds of years of oppression and being shamed specifically because of one's race.

In other words, if my people had suffered as Black Americans have for hundreds of years, I think I'd have earned the right to claim racial pride -- or perhaps more accurately, racial anti-shame. The same could be said for GLBTs.

The point of all this diatribe is that while a certain tolerance is appropriate when "pride" is bandied about in all its shades, we should be aware that pride is not a simple concept.

Sorry for the long post. I hope you enjoy a friendly discussion of these sorts of topics as much as I do. Thanks in advance for your tempered participation.

[Big Dave]

Nicely said Scott.

[beloitpiper]

[*]Why are you proud of your heritage?[*]If you are or were a serviceman, are you proud of your service? Why? (If you have not been in the service, think about why a serviceman might be proud of his/her service.)[*]Are you proud of you race? (Note that this is different than "ethnic" pride.) Why? ***THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF RACIAL PRIDE, IT'S A DISCUSSION OF PRIDE, AND PRIDE IN ONE'S RACE IS JUST ONE SMALL COMPONENT OF THAT TOPIC.***[*]If you could be characterized as belonging to a group that has been historically socially ostracized or oppressed such as gays/lesbians/transsexuals or similar, are you proud of your association with that group? Why?[*]Are you proud to wear a kilt? Why?[*]Have you or someone close to you been recognized for a contribution to society? Examples might be a Pulitzer or Nobel prize, or the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Are you proud of this? Why?

1) I am proud of my heritage because of the great contributions Scots and Scottish-Americans have made in society.

2) I am not and never was part of military. I have many family members who served, but I have not done so myself.

3) I am extremely proud of my race and how it has stood up to persecution and dicsrimination, and how it has established itself as a leading contributor to society (as mentioned above).

4) I am neither homosexual nor transgender, but the Irish (to which I have a strong connection) have withstood persecution both in America and the UK. I am proud of this, and hope that they can continually represent themselves positively. Even the Scots, during the Highland Clearances (which forced my ancestors to come to America) were persecuted, and I am extremely proud of their behavior.

5) I am proud to wear a kilt because of what it represents (my family and culture) and that I have the courage to wear one in a society that looks down upon what is different.

6) My grandfather was a both personal friend of Martin Luther King Jr. and one of the most celebrated judges in Wisconsin. I guess I am proud of this, but I do not publicize it. What I am more proud of is that he stood for what he believed in, and did not bow down to pressure. My other grandfather was a WWII hero, but I do not feel the need to flaunt it. More importantly, I am creating a name for myself and I hope to do many great things in my life. I am only 19 years old and look forward to a great number of opportunities in my life.

[Rab Gordon]

I'm not sure if I'd say that I'm proud to be Scottish per se, but it is an important part of my personal identity and culture and I am very comfortable and happy to be Scottish.
In our multicultural world I think that we need to first be comfortable with our own cultural identity in order to honestly emphasise with and respect its importance to other groups.

Rab

Sgian Dubhs & Sgian Brews
( Ask for XMarkers discount )

[ozmeath]

Firstly I noticed a new member and would like to welcome Julian- Welcome!

Thanks Scott for a thought invoking post, it's tricky at best to dicuss blood and/or culturally related pride and identity. You did well in broaching some interesting points.

Relating to your post Gregory, I think we all here understand your need to stand your ground as such in wearing the kilt and black knife to college. Also you obviously consider yourself part of a group be it Celts, Scotts, Kilt wearers or even as an Xmarks member etc. I personally get a bit of a kick out of rocking the boat on occasion and I don't blame you for wanting to challenge the dominant paradigm at least a little.
This said, as a member of a group that you have pride for you also represent the whole as a member of it. If you start flaunting the local laws of your school or region you can easily create bad press and reputation for all of that group you consider yourself part of, which of course is contra to your motivation in the first place.
Well, just something for all of us to be aware of.
Skien Dubh or not to Dubh.....
Erin.

[Panache]

Scott,

Great Post!

Says Panache who is more Dutch and Dane than Scot by blood, and has as much German a Scottish blood in his veins (but who does not fancy lederhosen)

Cheers

[Alan H]

This is a truly GREAT thread, so thank you to all who've written in it. I don't have a lot to say on the subject, though I might tomorrow after I mull it over for a bit.

I wore Panache's Sgian Don't to school today and within fifteen minutes of class I had four teachers question me on whether I had a knife in my sock. I didn't, but I could see the issue getting out of hand for no good reason so I left it in the car.

[Panache]

...I wore Panache's Sgian Don't to school today and within fifteen minutes of class I had four teachers question me on whether I had a knife in my sock. I didn't, but I could see the issue getting out of hand for no good reason so I left it in the car.

I can see it now.

The scene, Alan H. walking down the hallway of the Highschool, a teacher passes by and looks down and sees the knife handle tucked into his sock

Teacher: Hey you have a knife on school grounds! SECURITY!

Alan H. : Don't worry, it isn't a knife

Teacher : It isn't?

Alan H. : No, no, no...I would never wear a knife to a school. I know it's against the law.

Teacher : So what's that?

Alan H. : A Sgian Don't. (Pulling it out of his hose) See it's really a bottle cap openner.

Teacher: Oh, well that's OK then.

Alan H. : I use it to open my beers during the lunch break...

Teacher: SECURITY!!!!!!!

Cheers