Me...

[kiltedcossack]

Kidcossack, is your badge part of your arms, and are they registered with the Russian Heraldry Society?

Ah, no. It's simply my own design, and one I favor very much. To be honest, I didn't know there was a Russian Heraldry Society.
That having been said, I'll look into it, and I'm going to register my tartan and have some nice, box pleat kilts made from it for meself and me foine buckos in the clan (Clan Storm, that is).
Being of absolutely no noble blood whatsoe'er, I am dubious to say the least about having my badge registered anywhere, and I have no arms (Armigerously speaking, of course).

Clan de Stein, that's actually kind of funny.
Never heard of a Jewish Tartan either, but I'll look.

[Monkey@Arms]

There is a Jewish tartan. I can't think of what the actual name is.

Its the secret tartan of the Clan De Stein . . . clandestine, secret, Stein, Jewish names, get it . . . ? Yeah, OK maybe its not funny Actually, I didn't make this bad pun(?) up, I actually heard or read it ages ago, refering to the tartan for a Jewish spy of that name, and I continuously await the opportunity to repeat it. Why, I don't know.

Best regards,

Jake

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Now that I have found this thread, I know why Todd just PMed me asking if I had heard of a Jewish tartan. :-)

I have not seen a tartan meant just for Jewish people (though I could envision an "Israeli district tartan" designed in blue and white for the national flag). The closest thing I can find in the International Tartan Index is a tartan for a Jewish elementary school in New Jersey.

As for Russia, in my Compendium of District Tartans I write:

People from Russia may wish to wear the Gordon tartan in honor of the Scottish general Patrick Gordon (1635-99) who modernized the army of PEter the Great. Alternately, Russians may wish to wear the Barclay tartan in honor of Prince Mikhail Barclay de Tolly, a Russian field marshal of Scottish descent who commanded the Scottish forces against Napolean in 1812.

There is also a tartan called Muskova recorded in the ITI as No. 6360. This was designed by the late Bill Johnston here in the USA sometime around 1980, as a tartan for use by those of Russian descent. It's not in my CDT, because at the time of that writing, I could find absolutely no information about the tartan other than it's name. Since then the STA has obtained a thread count, and now it's in the ITI.

Another Russian tartan is Lermentov, designed by Brian Wilton (STA director) in 2004. It's No. 6493. This tartan was designed for the Russian descendents of George Lermont (a 'Scotch Knight') of Fife who emigrated to Russia in 1613 to serve as a military instructor to Tsar Mikhail Romanov.

Of course, you can also suggest that Russians wear the St. Andrews tartan, as St. Andrew is patron of both Scotland and Russia. Of course the St. Andrews tartan is, strictly speaking, a district tartan for the place in Scotland by that name, but you can stretch it's symbolism a bit, I think.

Aye,
Matt

[turpin]

There is a Jewish tartan. I can't think of what the actual name is. Cajunscot could probably tell us, or one of the resident history buffs. 0

I remember seeing it, but don't remember what it is called. It has the blue and white from the Israeli flag.

I believe it's the Ferguson Tartan. A Jewish friend told me about the Jewish branch of Clan Ferguson in America. It seems that when the large migration of east European Jews took place in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many of the who didn't speak any English were coached by those who did on how to pronounce their names so the immigration officials could understand and properly record them. Any number of the immigrants would approach the impatient officials nervously, and when asked for their names several times, they'd say over and over (excuse the phonetic spelling) "shoin vergessen" which, translated from Yiddish, means something like "I forget".

Well, the official didn't have time to mess around, so forever after these folks were named Sean Ferguson. (Funny, you don't look Scottish)

[gilmore]

I believe it's the Ferguson Tartan. A Jewish friend told me about the Jewish branch of Clan Ferguson in America. It seems that when the large migration of east European Jews took place in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many of the who didn't speak any English were coached by those who did on how to pronounce their names so the immigration officials could understand and properly record them. Any number of the immigrants would approach the impatient officials nervously, and when asked for their names several times, they'd say over and over (excuse the phonetic spelling) "shoin vergessen" which, translated from Yiddish, means something like "I forget".

Well, the official didn't have time to mess around, so forever after these folks were named Sean Ferguson. (Funny, you don't look Scottish)

That's a cute story. I wonder if it has, as Mark Twain said of one of his tales, the added advantage of being true.

[gilmore]

I found another version of the story here: http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=8761


One Berel Bienstock, a leading European Yiddish stage actor, had rather limited spoken English abilities. As long as his lip movements approximated the printed dialogue on the screen, Bienstock was not too concerned with diction, and so he was confident he’d soon land a job in the "flickers."

Sure enough, his famous name preceded him and when he arrived at Ellis Island, he was met by his new agent, who, before putting Bienstock on a train to Los Angeles, urged him to Americanize his name.

The suggestion made sense to Bienstock, and all the way across the country — for six days — he kept selecting likely names and discarding them, until he finally picked one.

After checking into a hotel, he immediately went to see a movie producer, armed with a scrapbook loaded with newspaper articles and favorable reviews from Europe. A secretary ushered him in to the producer, who abruptly asked, "What’s your name?"

Bienstock’s mind went blank.— to save his life he couldn’t remember the American name he’d chosen. There remained only one thing — to make an honest confession.

"Schoen fergessen," ("I’ve forgotten") he said.

And a new star was born when the mogul wrote down the actor’s name: Sean Ferguson.

[gilmore]

this one from here: http://www.jewishgen.org/JCR-UK/Comm...reenockart.htm

<<<"Harvey also sent me a copy of an article in the local Glasgow Jewish paper, The Jewish Telegraph, about the Greenock community. It was accompanied by a letter in that paper, from a former Greenock resident, born there in 1921, correcting the errors in the article. This letter was clearly based on personal knowledge and experience, even if of many years before. In it he mentioned the holding of religious services, but it was not in Cathcart Street. I am still wondering if there was a synagogue in Greenock or whether people just used private houses for services.

The writer of the article in the Jewish Chronicle was a Smith; the letter in the Jewish Telegraph was by a Brown (his forebear was also a shoemaker). When I saw 'Ferguson' on the headstone I thought that, at last, I had alighted on the apocryphal East European Jewish immigrant who, on arrival in Britain, had said in Yiddish "Schain Ferguson" ("I've forgotten") to a port officer. Thus he had become Sean Ferguson. Alas, it wasn't the case. Harvey Kaplan had come across the name, in the naturalisation archives, of the Russian-born Reuben Fagerson. Obviously only a tiny change was needed to make it Ferguson. Another myth had gone the way of so many.>>>

There is also an Argentine version of the story:

<<<Argentinean Equivalent of the "Sean Ferguson" Legend

There is a legend that a Jewish immigrant coming to the United States was encouraged to change his name to a more American name. When he arrived in the U.S., he was so flustered that when the Ellis Island official asked for his name, he blurted out "sheyn fergessen" (I already forgot), and the official dutifully wrote down the name of the immigrant as Sean Ferguson. The origin of this legend is known, and it appeared in the Winter 1989 issue of Avotaynu. Owners of AVOTAYNU on CD-ROM can search for "Sean Ferguson".


"In the Summer issue of AVOTAYNU, which is now being edited and formatted, Paul Armony, president of the Argentinean Jewish genealogical society has written an excellent article about the use of Jewish surnames in Argentina. It is worth reading even if you do not have family in that country. Armony includes a story to support his claim that some of these names were accidentally created.

He writes:

"The following example is a true story. Jacob gave 10 pesos to his employee to go to the city and register his newborn son. Jacob said that his son's name must be Isaac Reuben Trumper. The employer arrived early in the city, went first to a bar and drank most of the money. Only later did he remember that he must go to the civil registration office. When the employee was asked the last name of the parents, he replied, 'Jacob and Sara Trumper.' The clerk wrote that and then asked the name of the baby. The drunken man replied, "Jesus, me olvide!" (Jesus, I forgot!) The clerk dutifully registered the baby's given name as "Jesus Noteolvide."

You can subscribe to AVOTAYNU at http://www.avotaynu.com/journal.htm
>>>

from http://www.avotaynu.com/nu/V07N10.htm

[Dreadbelly]

I remember reading about it in a book. I wish I could remember more. It was for Jewish Chaplains I believe.

Been trying all kinds of combos on google, having no luck.

Edit. I did find the RAChD and the fact that they have Jewish Chaplains for Jewish Scots, but no mention of the tartan. Bother, this is going to drive me mad.

I remember it because there was a beautiful Italian tartan on the same page.

[macwilkin]

I remember reading about it in a book. I wish I could remember more. It was for Jewish Chaplains I believe.

Been trying all kinds of combos on google, having no luck.

Edit. I did find the RAChD and the fact that they have Jewish Chaplains for Jewish Scots, but no mention of the tartan. Bother, this is going to drive me mad.

I remember it because there was a beautiful Italian tartan on the same page.

Army Chaplains in the British Army are part of a department and are attached to the regiments. They were their own distinct uniform and insignia, oir in some cases, the uniform and insignia of the regiment/corps they are assigned to.

Regards,

Todd

[kiltedcossack]

Would anyone happen to know where I could get my badge made as a peice of jewellery, perchance?