The perfect kilt for daily wear?

[The Wizard of BC]

Well Master Guns I don't call what I do a "Beer Gut Cut" because that is what UK calls the feature they will do as an option at extra cost.

What I found when designing kilts is that almost all kilts can benefit from having the waistband sloped. The back higher than the front.

Now all my kilts incorporate Slope. How much depends on your particular shape.

Try this - wrap a bath towel around yourself where you would like your kilt to be. It doesn't matter if that is Traditional or Mid, or even Low Rise. Wherever you like wearing your kilt.
Then move around a bit, bend and sit. Let the towel settle to where it naturally wants to sit.
Then get a pencil and walk up to a door frame and mark the height of the back of the towel on the frame. Kinda like you used to do to measure your kids growth. Then turn around and make a mark at the height of the front of the towel.

Now step back and look at the two marks. That's your slope.

As far as I know, I am the only kiltmaker that uses slope. All the kilts I make use it and it is a standard part of my measuring system. I don't charge extra for it.

[James MacMillan]

Well Master Guns I don't call what I do a "Beer Gut Cut" because that is what UK calls the feature they will do as an option at extra cost.

What I found when designing kilts is that almost all kilts can benefit from having the waistband sloped. The back higher than the front.

Now all my kilts incorporate Slope. How much depends on your particular shape.

Try this - wrap a bath towel around yourself where you would like your kilt to be. It doesn't matter if that is Traditional or Mid, or even Low Rise. Wherever you like wearing your kilt.
Then move around a bit, bend and sit. Let the towel settle to where it naturally wants to sit.
Then get a pencil and walk up to a door frame and mark the height of the back of the towel on the frame. Kinda like you used to do to measure your kids growth. Then turn around and make a mark at the height of the front of the towel.

Now step back and look at the two marks. That's your slope.

As far as I know, I am the only kiltmaker that uses slope. All the kilts I make use it and it is a standard part of my measuring system. I don't charge extra for it.

That sounds interesting. I think I will move this to the PM mode.

[Mr. Woolery]

Actually, I'd like to see more information about kilt design. This is starting to be a fascinating topic to me and I would appreciate as much discussion from kilt makers as possible.

I've made a couple of home kilts (wearing one right now) that had some degree of success. But I am not ever likely to offer any for market. The real value of having sewn a few is that I can now appreciate design a lot better.

Sport Kilts are appealing from a simplicity point of view. They are just a wrap-around design with velcro waist and pleats in the back. I like the simplicity, but it doesn't really cut it for higher-quality wear. Plus, I just don't trust velcro for holding my privacy in. Two of my homemade attempts use velcro... Utilikilts are rugged, but I think they overdo the macho factor with their site and with their designs. They just don't look elegant to me and I like elegant.

One thing I have found that I like quite well is jean buttons. I used those for my current twill favorite. They are fast to button and very stable. I plan to try a couple of pocket ideas in the near future, but one of my home jobbies has patch pockets under the aprons. The one on the left utilizes a super-deep pleat under the top apron just to make room for the pocket.

I'd love to find some good tartan or tartan-esque material that would make an inexpensive kilt. If only, you know?

My ideal for daily wear:
Plaid, in either a tartan or tartan-like material
machine-washable
Fast to put on (buttons or snaps)
Very secure on my waist
pockets
full-width aprons (I don't like the narrow ones very much)
Made in US or Europe, not a 3rd-world country
affordable (which sort of rules out US/European manufacture)
belt loops

There are some really neat kilts out there and I would love to see more. However, I'm pretty broke most of the time, so what I'd really love is something that doesn't cost more than $60, which is what I spent last time I bought two pairs of Levi jeans.

So, all in all, I do think that there is a lot of room for further discussion of what makes a good daily-wear kilt and how to put it together. And I would love to have that part happen in public, not in PMs! (Business stuff should, of course, be private, though.)

-Patrick

[James MacMillan]

This is not meant to be a frivolous response, but the best kilt for daily wear is the one that you wear daily.

I wear casual tartan kilts daily. I am comfortable using the sporran, so no pockets doesn’t bother me. There are also certain things that can be done that make up for no pockets. Things can be securely stuck into the waistband or hose top. Shirt pockets or when available jacket pockets work also. I also have been known to tuck an object behind my sporran strap with good results. This works very well with paperback books that won’t fit in a crowded sporran.

I have been dragging my feet lately buying a UK or FK or some such non-traditional kilt. I don’t know if I would use it that much.

Non-trads tend to be used with hose down – not my style. I like tartan – a lot! Many (most) non-trads are solid color.

I remain - Perplexed about a non-traditional kilt. Having said that, I am really leaning towards having the Wiz make me one. Just can’t yet get a handle on all the options.

[ccga3359]

This is not meant to be a frivolous response, but the best kilt for daily wear is the one that you wear daily.

I wear casual tartan kilts daily. I am comfortable using the sporran, so no pockets doesn’t bother me. There are also certain things that can be done that make up for no pockets. Things can be securely stuck into the waistband or hose top. Shirt pockets or when available jacket pockets work also. I also have been known to tuck an object behind my sporran strap with good results. This works very well with paperback books that won’t fit in a crowded sporran.

I have been dragging my feet lately buying a UK or FK or some such non-traditional kilt. I don’t know if I would use it that much.

Non-trads tend to be used with hose down – not my style. I like tartan – a lot! Many (most) non-trads are solid color.

I remain - Perplexed about a non-traditional kilt. Having said that, I am really leaning towards having the Wiz make me one. Just can’t yet get a handle on all the options.

You'll be glad you did. I know you like your kilts cut traditional and tartan. i highly recommend the front slash pockets even if you don't go with a contemperary choice of material. You'll find that they will spoil you or my name isn't 'Steve's paid minion'.

[James MacMillan]

You'll be glad you did. I know you like your kilts cut traditional and tartan. i highly recommend the front slash pockets even if you don't go with a contemperary choice of material. You'll find that they will spoil you or my name isn't 'Steve's paid minion'.

Ok, OK - I PM'ed the Wiz, and he gave me some more feed back, and I am struggling with the options now. What color, fabric, pocket options, style, etc, etc, - - there are a lot of choices, when you go non-traditional.

I'm leaning towards just one front side pocket, khaki, and normal pleats, but, still open for ideas....... I do know that I'm not yet ready for the leather and chicken look yet........ well, I could buy a wig?

[turpin]

Why not consider a Tartan kilt made by Steve following the design he has already discussed here.? He does work in tartan.

[James MacMillan]

Why not consider a Tartan kilt made by Steve following the design he has already discussed here.? He does work in tartan.

Well, the object is to go towards a non-traditional kilt........ So I thought I would not get tartan for that....... Plus since this is really an experiment, I like the idea that there are some lower cost ways to go.

Sometimes it really is hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

[creativeaccents]

So can we assume by this thread that you are considering joining the ranks of manufacturers? We can always use more good kiltmakers. Especially if you can find a way to produce a high quality product at a reasonable price.

Before you jump in I suggest you get a copy of Barb Tewksbury's book "The Art of Kiltmaking". In it you will find the first rule of aprons - Never put darts in the aprons! The shaping is all in the apron edges.

So can we assume by this thread that you are considering joining the ranks of manufacturers? We can always use more good kiltmakers. Especially if you can find a way to produce a high quality product at a reasonable price.

Before you jump in I suggest you get a copy of Barb Tewksbury's book "The Art of Kiltmaking". In it you will find the first rule of aprons - Never put darts in the aprons! The shaping is all in the apron edges.

NO SIR! Not planning on venturing into manufacturing. My degree was in marketing and my career was in marketing (for clarification, marketing is FAR more than sales). I love marketing and this, plus my own wearing of kilts, making of kilts, and research of every possible style, design, and maker of kilts that I can find on the web, plus the observations on this fine board led me to consider where things are and what people love most and desire most in kilts.

I have found those ranging from those in the two digit prices to over 2000 and so many styles. As you well know, there are already fairly established buyer/market segments based upon the pricing and styles. Interestingly, the super expensive kilts are not the most complex, but, rather, fairly simple designs, so even for kilts the same marketing factors as with other "designer" products enters in. But, this is not the mainstream market any more than the very formal, tailored kilt is.

For that matter, I don't see the bottom end or entry level kilt as being the market of most promise when viewed on an international level any more than I do the more rugged waist hugger. Actually, I think there is a huge potential for what I have been ruminating on, a basic style with straight forward features for everyday wear that would enable a fine kilt to be taken easily into more applications with less resistance. I can see the day when a non Celtic kilt would be a part of a suited or even formal item of attire and the same design available in other fabrics for less formal occasions. This would require larger scale numbers for manufacture and broader availability.

For now I simply enjoy the reflection and sharing of ideas, as I work on my own distribution by MENSPLACE on eBAY as a step one towards developing greater world wide awareness and availability. Today, I distribute the Kidder line and within the next couple of weeks will be adding the Utilikilt line, both well made, high quality for their niche. In growing slowly, I have the time to learn and test the waters while already beginning the path toward international distribution.

Manufacturing is not in my plans, but marketing and distribution very much are, while also totally enjoying Barbara's book, making and wearing my own, and hearing other's thoughts, likes, dislikes and desires.

[The Wizard of BC]

For that matter, I don't see the bottom end or entry level kilt as being the market of most promise when viewed on an international level any more than I do the more rugged waist hugger. Actually, I think there is a huge potential for what I have been ruminating on, a basic style with straight forward features for everyday wear that would enable a fine kilt to be taken easily into more applications with less resistance. I can see the day when a non Celtic kilt would be a part of a suited or even formal item of attire and the same design available in other fabrics for less formal occasions. This would require larger scale numbers for manufacture and broader availability.

Thank you for those well written words. It is exactly that thinking that has driven me in the design and manufacture of FK's.

The last sentence is the kicker though. To manufacture on a larger scale I would need significant capitalization to sub-contract the manufacturing. With its associated loss of the personal touch.
The only way to bring the price into range of other garments would necessitate farming out manufacturing to an area with lower labor costs and purchasing fabrics by the container load. Again with the loss of personal contact.
Both of these options also negate the ability of custom work.

I like meeting my customers face to face. I also love to watch the look on their faces when they first put my kilts on.
I like to be able to fit a customer with exactly the kilt they want. One that fits perfectly and has the features they need.
I also like doing some of the work myself.
I straddle the line everyday between taking my business to the next level of marketing and getting bigger than I am to sell a higher number of kilts, and growing slowly knowing that some customers will have to wait in line for the perfect kilt.
I fully expect that one day I will find myself spending my entire day managing a company and not having the time to sit at a machine. Then having a customer read his hang tag and finding "Your kilt was sewn by Steve" on it.
I also fully expect that some day, some hard driving young person will take what I have started, take it mainstream and put me out of business.

Until that time I satisfy myself with the analogy that I am not buying a ship load of Yugos and selling them out of a warehouse, nor am I building a Bentley and selling them only to those who are buying the prestige.

There is something in knowing that every potential customer can call me on the phone and describe his perfect kilt and that soon he will strap it on and walk down the street with pride.