Gorilla or elephant?

[TheKiltedWonder]

As for the steady decline of the English language, here are some chestnuts I always hear:

- double negatives of any kind

Come now, I just showed we shouldn't think of it as "decline"... Pleeease!
As for double negtives. They've long been part of the English language. They used to be used to strengthen a negative, which is how they are used today. The idea that double negatives make a positive was not introduced until Robert Lowth decided in the late 18th Century that English should follow more mathematical and "logical" rules. Only then did it became ungrammatical. But informal/"uneducated" use of the language has always preserved the traditional negative usage.

[slohairt]

I was thinking more along the lines of:

"Supposably that rope wasn't real taut neither."

Yippy-Yahoo!

[Makeitstop]

How many people want to "have their cake and eat it too," rather than "eat their cake and have it too?"

I have no real problem with the language and subtleties of grammar and all that changing over time. I do think it is important that people understand the current standards because they tend to sound stupid (and will be judged as such) when they butcher the language, even if their style will be the norm in the future.

What's far more important to me is that people understand how to use the language precisely. Far too many people don't have any idea how their choice of words can significantly alter the meaning.

As a rule, I try to avoid dumbing down my vocabulary in casual conversations as it bothers me to be imprecise in my wording, and I find it useful to study the reactions of others when faced with big and/or obscure words.

[TheKiltedWonder]

I was thinking more along the lines of:

"Supposably that rope wasn't real taut neither."

Yippy-Yahoo!

No that's what I meant. That's the original purpose of double negatives! It's strengthening the fact that the rope isn't taunt
As "country" as it sounds (and I have to admit it sounds a bit uneducated to me too), that's the more correct usage, if history is your guide.

And Makeitstop, I don't agree 100% with what you've said but I do hate it when people say "It's just a matter of semantics!" Just semantics? Just the actual meaning of the word?

[slohairt]

Crap... Thanks for pointing that out! I actually meant to use "taunt."

Oh well, I guess my brain corrected it before I even put to print. (type? screen? cyberspace?)

[slohairt]

Semantics, as everyone knows, is a company that makes software utilities!

There's another wonderful invention of the modern world: Stupid company names which are deliberately spelled incorrectly. I guess it's katchy.

[Archangel]

Why do we sit in the stands?
Park in the driveway?
Drive on the parkway?

parcel by car: shipment?
parcel by ship: cargo?

Is a tinker's dam cussing?

Which one hurts more: a near miss or a near hit?

[Andrew Breecher]

The English language changed much more quickly before we came up with that infernal device the printing press. And then someone had the dastardly notion of inventing the dictionary. Whereas before the language would change naturally, now people have this notion of what it "should" or "should not" be, and hang on to outdated rules of language. Languages evolve. Words tend to become easier to say, but not necessarily less complex. ("Man" used to literally mean any human being, and you would modify it as "woman" or "wereman." It was made simpler by making "man" also mean "wereman," and now some feminists get up in arms when you use it alone as its original meaning. "Girl" used to mean a child of any gender, and you'd have to specify "boy girl" if you were talking about a male. Et cetera.)

Andrew.

[Joel]

I watched a special on the evolution of the English language on Public Television. It was interesting so see where change is happening and hear the changes as well. Though, the one language expert said that the thing that influenced language the most is writing. The written language is evolving, too. People now that do the text messaging over the phone (which I don't know how to do), they use all sorts of new abbreviations for words and whole sentences! Yesterday, I was conversing with a girl via e-mail and she used a lot of those little abbreviations and I had no clue what she was saying. So, I had to guess. So yeah...I think sometimes these "technological advances" can do more harm than good.

[Pour1Malt]

(since this thread is about English- I'll write in English )

the idiom "Elephant in the room"... is likely to have been invented in America and is used there far more than any other country...

The Oxford English Dictionary recently added an entry for this idiom- but they do not give its etymology....

the earliest 'official' source seems to be from 1984- a book entitled "An Elephant in the Living Room: a leader’s guide for helping children of alcoholics"

but I'm sure the phrase is older than that....

the 800 pound gorilla phrase is an old joke... I remember telling it as a kid back in the 70's... which probably means stand-ups were telling it in the 60's...

I have no idea how or why these two phrases could have been inter-twined....

I suppose (as others have) that it is a blend of those two powerful modern movements- ignorance and illiteracy....

and now....

it is back tae Scots fur me!

cheers