Marine Corps League

[thescot]

Well, brother, from one traveling man--and Marine-- to another, I salute your attempts to get a kilted uniform. I might rejoin the League if they approve one.

I would certainly opt for the Leatherneck tartan (designed by Bob Hall, a Marine in Viet Nam) because all the colors are right. I've personally never cared for the red jackets of the League and, hence, never bought one. A regular sport coat style is too long with a kilt, but the evening jacket with a black belt and a USMC buckle would look pretty good. You can find buckles in various locations.

You can get a plain flat sporran and simply add the EGA device to the front which would provide understatement but still look squared away. I wouldn't wear a hair sporran, but a fur evening sporran might work. Still, personally, the plain is best. (PM me if you can't find one. I probably have an extra from a batch of Canadian surplus I bought a while back.)

I would also go with navy blue hose and a more subtle pair of flashes since the red jacket is so . . . RED! Ordinarily, I go with lovat green and red flashes, but with that jacket, I'd have to opt for another color I think.

I'm sure you'll look first rate whatever you end up with. Just be sure to follow the SOP around here and put up a photo. It's a rule.

Semper fi.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Here is what I have now.

This is "dress" but not formal.

This from the side.

Showing the belt without the sporran or kilt belt.

Without jacket...I know the kilt is crooked and too high.

I would suggest the following changes:

1) I would go with an Argyll jacket. If you are "stuck" with a red jacket then have the cuffs and collar (but not lapels) in blue. If possible I would go with an Argyll in the same shade of blue as USMC blues but with red cuffs and a red collar (but not lapels).
2) On "dress occasions" I would add a low-cut 4 button waistcoat (opposite colour of the jacket-- either red or blue) and black bow tie. (with a 4 button waistcoat you will have a total of 13 buttons-- same as USMC Mess Dress)
3) I would wear hose the same colour blue as USMC blues trousers, with red flashes.
4) Loose the patch on the kilt; get a kilt belt and EGA kilt belt buckle.
5) Keep the military shoes, avoid ghillies.
6) Go with a plain black military style sporran. Place the EGA on the flap.
7) Go with a plain black sgian dubh-- no clan badges or stones in the top.

I would assemble the entire prototype uniform before putting in an appearance. Most people lack any sort of visual sense, and will make their decision to approve or disapprove the uniform based only on what they see.

It is of paramount importance that the uniform says "MARINE" the moment someone lays eyes on it. That being the case you should take all of your styling cues from USMC Mess Dress and Dress Blues.

[Derek Conley]

I am also a member of our color guard. Now I need another kilt in that dress blue.

Been curious for a while now who may have made those kilts.

[Derek Conley]

I would suggest the following changes:

1) I would go with an Argyll jacket. If you are "stuck" with a red jacket then have the cuffs and collar (but not lapels) in blue. If possible I would go with an Argyll in the same shade of blue as USMC blues but with red cuffs and a red collar (but not lapels).
2) On "dress occasions" I would add a low-cut 4 button waistcoat (opposite colour of the jacket-- either red or blue) and black bow tie. (with a 4 button waistcoat you will have a total of 13 buttons-- same as USMC Mess Dress)
3) I would wear hose the same colour blue as USMC blues trousers, with red flashes.
4) Loose the patch on the kilt; get a kilt belt and EGA kilt belt buckle.
5) Keep the military shoes, avoid ghillies.
6) Go with a plain black military style sporran. Place the EGA on the flap.
7) Go with a plain black sgian dubh-- no clan badges or stones in the top.

I would assemble the entire prototype uniform before putting in an appearance. Most people lack any sort of visual sense, and will make their decision to approve or disapprove the uniform based only on what they see.

It is of paramount importance that the uniform says "MARINE" the moment someone lays eyes on it. That being the case you should take all of your styling cues from USMC Mess Dress and Dress Blues.

You, sir, have come up with an excellent series of ideas. As a veteran Marine myself, may I say:

1. I think the MCL's red jackets look horrible. I applaud your idea of "an Argyll in the same shade of blue as USMC blues but with red cuffs and a red collar (but not lapels). ".

2. Phenomenal idea to tie this into the 13-button layout of Mess Dress.

3. Again, excellent; I like how this then (with the Argyll above) follows the same color scheme as the standard Dress Blue uniform and emulates the trousers.

4. SWK has a very cool EGA belt buckle.

5. I agree; no ghillies.

6. I hesitate here; would the EGA on the sporran be too much with the EGA on the belt buckle as well? I would lean towards one or the other.

7. Plain is best. Someone earlier mentioned a kabar sgian dubh and I think that'd be slightly "gimmicky" for a uniform.

May I also suggest simply using the Leatherneck tartan.

[Scully]

I love the suggestions.
I agree that an argyle style jacket would be better. Currently red is the only option but I may have one like suggested made to test the concept.

Where would I get "dress blue" hose?

I have the kilt belt and sporran ordered. (from our sponsers of course)

I have only the red flashes now but I will get several other colors.

I would prefer to use the Leatherneck tartan. (working on funds)

The standard trousers are black, how about a black shadow tartan with black hose and red flashes. (the conformity option)

The mess style jacket is available in red. I will have to find a waistcoat in dress blue. I think that it will look very sharp.

I will go to the meeting but not in presentation form. I think that I will go without the jacket (looks terrible). I will have the kilt belt, buckle (SWK-EGA) and sporran by Tuesday. I think I can get the patch off without trouble (sorry Rocky). On second thought, I may go kilted but not uniform at all. I have several "golf" shirts with the EGA on them that will go with the kilt I have.

I guess I will dress and undress all weekend until I find the proper look.

Thanks again,
I will post more pics when I get more "parts" in.

[McMurdo]

You could check with the Scottish Tartan Museum here:

http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/hose_lewis.htm

[cavscout]

Call me crazy but this might work for a sans jacket outfit. But it's only available in Medium and you look a bit larger than that

http://www.landsend.com/pp/TailoredF...8&origin=index

I'd invest in some Navy Cable knit kilt hose from Hamilton Dry Goods. For a little more you can get Navy Pipers Hose that will look fantastic.

The key to this is going to be not bringing to much variation into the uniform so you still blend in with everyone else when in "formation". You'll need to keep the red coat unless the entire organization changes to a multi-colored coat (or unless they say it's OK of course) but I'd be surprised if they would want an outfit so un-uniform. A kilt is one thing when coordinated with the existing uniform items but building a completely unique and different uniform will not be looked too highly on unless it is for a exclusive unit (maybe the color guard you mentioned). So my suggestion or "word of caution" might be to develop one uniform concept that is conservative and maintains the current over all look as much as possible and then maybe one that is a bit more "flashy" with some of the ornamental bells and whistles that might be questionable.

[Sir William]

I've been working on a USMC dress outfit, so appreciate your intent.

If you want more of a daywear type outfit that would be complementary to other MCL members, I would suggest the MCL jacket be converted into a kilt jacket (as suggested by others here). I don't have a problem with the brighter color, especially since it also indicates your membership in the MCL. In that case, the bright red flashes would work, but you'd need to find another color of hose. Navy might work better, or some other subdued color from the kilt. Wear a plain black sporran, black military issue shoes, and a black belt with EGA buckle.

If you want a more formal outfit, go with either a USMC mess dress jacket, or your red MCL kilt jacket with a vest (and no belt). Red would do, but so would a blue one in navy or the color of the dress blue trousers. Wear a fur dress sporran and again, black military dress shoes.

For the kilt, my first choice would be the Leatherneck/USMC tartan, and second would be the Black Watch (government) which has a military association and looks well with just about everything.

Good luck with getting the idea accepted by your leadership.

Semper Fi!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

With regard to several of the above postings:

The MCL is not the United States Marine Corps. Therefore one would have to be extremely careful about wearing actual USMC uniform items, and in the final analysis one probably should not wear "official" uniform items like mess jackets, etc.

Although there is a difference between the uniforms of officers and enlisted personnel, the "Dress Blues" of the EMs is imprinted in the American psyche as the Marine uniform. Any kilted Marine Corps League uniform should reflect this image as closely as possible.

A dark blue Argyll with red trim, a traditional "Leatherneck" or USMC tartan kilt, sky blue hose with red flashes, black sporran and well polished black low cut shoes, black kilt belt and black four-in-hand tie to complete a formal "day wear" look.

For evening wear the red, four button waistcoat replaces the belt, and the EAG is attached to the sporran flap. The four-in-hand tie is replaced by a black bow tie and the white day wear shirt is replaced by a tuxedo shirt with a fold over collar.

A word about hose-- keep them plain, with plain tops, as befits the military look you are hoping to achieve. Remember, you want to look like the USMC, not a pipe band.

Finally, you are going to have to discourage the wearing of "non-Leatherneck/USMC" tartan kilts with the MCL uniform, or you will end up with a bunch of (well meaning) guys, each doing their own thing, and looking like they are on their way to a golf outing.

Good luck, Marine!

[Derek Conley]

Again, I like these ideas.