Single Box Compared to Double Box pleat in Yardage?

[Bugbear]

Well, I am still saving a little bit here and there toward the first goal of affording the cost of the eight yards of Bear tartan fabric, but the stack of money is not quite high enough yet. As I said before, "I don't make these kind of purchases without having saved up the money first, so it could be a while..."

However, I have had time to think over all of this. It's looking like the regular box pleat option is the best way to go for a number of reasons. It might be easier
to deal with, now that I think about it...

I doubt that I will throw my Stillwater half-sett Lamont in the trash, especially after all the work and modifications I have put into it.... I did have some worries about having and wearing the two tartans, but the Bears probably won't care.

[piperdbh]

Ted,
Here's another option:
If you don't find someone who wants the rest of your Bear tartan, you could have a half-plaid made from the remaining yardage. It's approximately 2 yards long, double-width, and has belt loops or a long hem in one end, which a belt passes through and secures around your middle. The unbelted end then lays over your shoulder, either through an epaulette or pinned to your jacket with a broach. In your neck of the woods, though, it might be cool enough to wear the half-plaid for about twenty minutes a year.

By the way, will the non-symmetric nature of the Bear tartan require more yardage than a symmetric tartan would need?

[Bugbear]

Oh ya, Mein, it helps, and thanks. I'm still looking at the numbers, but it doesn't seem like a whole lot more for the double box. I'm around 37" on hips and waist.

From what I understand, the double box has a little better swing than the single box. Is that correct?

[meinfs]

Oh ya, Mein, it helps, and thanks. I'm still looking at the numbers, but it doesn't seem like a whole lot more for the double box. I'm around 37" on hips and waist.

From what I understand, the double box has a little better swing than the single box. Is that correct?

37" at the hips would bring the double box down to about 4.8 yards.


I don't have experience in comparing the swing of a double-box vs a single-box of the same material and length, so I can't comment expertly on the swing. But in general, box-pleats in heavyweight wool have a good swing to begin with and I think it'll be better if not the same swing factor for a double-box. I'd say IMHO that this is not as big a factor as say, the look. I absolutely love the look of double-box pleats, especially Robert's and Lady Chrystel's, from whose work I derived inspiration.

[The Wizard of BC]

Ted,
I don't think you question can be totally answered with a firm, exact amount of fabric.

The of the amount of fabric used in a Kilt is not a set number. It does not always lend itself to a formula.

Now that I've said that my brain works best when it has numbers to work with. So here is what I do.

And please remember that this is totally different than the way a Traditional Kiltmaker does things.

A Traditional Kiltmaker takes a known amount of fabric. 4 yards double-width for example. They then lay out both Aprons, the Deep and Reverse Pleats, and then find out how much is left over.
They then use the Sett size (or one full repeat of the Tartan pattern) and depending on if they are pleating to the Stripe or to the Sett will figure out how many Setts there are in the remaining fabric and that will give them the size of the Pleat reveal. The Pleat Depth is what is left over.

What I do is determine the Pleat Reveal I want. That tells me how many Pleats the Kilt will have. I then know the width of the aprons so the total is the amount of fabric I will need. (Notice that a Traditional Kiltmaker starts with a given amount of fabric and adjusts Pleat reveal, where I set the reveal and let the total amount of fabric to change.)

For example, A Kilt I would make for myself would take 6.93 yards if pleated to the Stripe and 7.65 if pleated to the Sett. I would have aprons 16" wide at the waist and contain 26 Pleats with a 1" reveal. IF THE SETT SIZE IS EXACTLY 6".

Keep everything the same but change just the Sett size from 6" to 6 5/8" and the same Kilt will now take 7.38 yards pleated to the Stripe and 8.10 if pleated to the Sett.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THESE TWO EXAMPLES BUT THE TARTAN SETT SIZE.

Now let's switch to a Box Pleated Kilt.

If everything is perfect and the creases of the Pleats meet on the outside as well as on the inside of the Kilt each pleat width will be 1/3 of the Sett.

To look well a Box Pleated Kilt should have pleats somewhere between 2" and 3.5" wide.
If we keep with the same 6" Sett as in the Knife Pleat example above the box pleated Kilt with the same Tartan has a 2" wide Pleat.

The Problem comes with the Double Box Pleats Each Pleat uses 3/5's more fabric per Pleat. This would result in Pleats only .6" wide. Not good.

So we would have to use two Setts per Pleat or 12". This results in a Pleat 2.4" wide.

But it also uses 3/5's as much fabric per Pleat.

Here are the numbers I would come up with for my example Kilt sizes from above.

A Single Box Pleated Kilt with a Hip of 42" ---
Tartan Sett = 6"
17" Aprons
13 - 2" Box Pleats
Total amount of fabric used 5.9 Kilt yards.

A Double Box Pleated Kilt with a Hip of 42" ---
Tartan Sett = 6"
18" Aprons
11 - 2.4" Box Pleats
for a total amount of fabric of 6.16 Fabric Yards.

[Peter C.]

Ted,
I don't think you question can be totally answered with a firm, exact amount of fabric.

The of the amount of fabric used in a Kilt is not a set number. It does not always lend itself to a formula.

Now that I've said that my brain works best when it has numbers to work with. So here is what I do.

And please remember that this is totally different than the way a Traditional Kiltmaker does things.

A Traditional Kiltmaker takes a known amount of fabric. 4 yards double-width for example. They then lay out both Aprons, the Deep and Reverse Pleats, and then find out how much is left over.
They then use the Sett size (or one full repeat of the Tartan pattern) and depending on if they are pleating to the Stripe or to the Sett will figure out how many Setts there are in the remaining fabric and that will give them the size of the Pleat reveal. The Pleat Depth is what is left over.

What I do is determine the Pleat Reveal I want. That tells me how many Pleats the Kilt will have. I then know the width of the aprons so the total is the amount of fabric I will need. (Notice that a Traditional Kiltmaker starts with a given amount of fabric and adjusts Pleat reveal, where I set the reveal and let the total amount of fabric to change.)

For example, A Kilt I would make for myself would take 6.93 yards if pleated to the Stripe and 7.65 if pleated to the Sett. I would have aprons 16" wide at the waist and contain 26 Pleats with a 1" reveal. IF THE SETT SIZE IS EXACTLY 6".

Keep everything the same but change just the Sett size from 6" to 6 5/8" and the same Kilt will now take 7.38 yards pleated to the Stripe and 8.10 if pleated to the Sett.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THESE TWO EXAMPLES BUT THE TARTAN SETT SIZE.

Now let's switch to a Box Pleated Kilt.

If everything is perfect and the creases of the Pleats meet on the outside as well as on the inside of the Kilt each pleat width will be 1/3 of the Sett.

To look well a Box Pleated Kilt should have pleats somewhere between 2" and 3.5" wide.
If we keep with the same 6" Sett as in the Knife Pleat example above the box pleated Kilt with the same Tartan has a 2" wide Pleat.

The Problem comes with the Double Box Pleats Each Pleat uses 3/5's more fabric per Pleat. This would result in Pleats only .6" wide. Not good.

So we would have to use two Setts per Pleat or 12". This results in a Pleat 2.4" wide.

But it also uses 3/5's as much fabric per Pleat.

Here are the numbers I would come up with for my example Kilt sizes from above.

A Single Box Pleated Kilt with a Hip of 42" ---
Tartan Sett = 6"
17" Aprons
13 - 2" Box Pleats
Total amount of fabric used 5.9 Kilt yards.

A Double Box Pleated Kilt with a Hip of 42" ---
Tartan Sett = 6"
18" Aprons
11 - 2.4" Box Pleats
for a total amount of fabric of 6.16 Fabric Yards.

In the box pleat examples, a very easy way of calculating the material you need for the pleats, providing the pleats meet perfectly, is to multiply the measurement you have allowed for the pleats at the hip by 3 for a single box pleated kilt because you have the equivalent of 3 layers of material around the hips of a single box pleated kilt, and by 5 for a double box pleated kilt because you have the equivalent of 5 layers of material around the hips of a double box pleated kilt. (The pleats must meet of course)

Then just add what is required for the 2 aprons.

Peter

[Bugbear]

I can't tell from the web site if it is eight yard multiples or if you can order ten, eleven, or what ever. It says eight yard minimum, I think., and that sounds like you can order eight or more yards rather than eight, sixteen, etc.

[meinfs]

Ted, yes, it says a minimum of 8 yards and only 8 yards is available as an option. So I'd say ask Chris if he can make a single length of 10 or 11 yards...

[Bugbear]

Thanks Mein, and like I said, I'm exploring all the options I have, now, in the first goal of affording the fabric.

Robert did PM me and said that putting more yardage into the double box pleats results in better and better swing. That kind of makes sense.

However, I am not decided yet on going with the double box, and here is why. I will have to press the thing from time to time. I already have a bit of trouble with pressing a regular knife pleat, not that I can't do it. I have a feeling a single box pleat would be easier than a double or the knife pleat because of my vision problems.

[Bugbear]

Speaking of goals, it's funny. Last year, as the whole econemy melted down, I shifted my plans and decided to stay put out here. That ment I had to change my kilt plans. I'm kind of glad I did now because it's getting me to think a lot more about what I really want.