University of Glasgow Cirrhosis of the Liver Study

[gilmore]

So everyone who drinks is responsible for these instances? Gieusabreak.

I respect other people's right not to drink, but I do ask for the same to be returned to me if I choose to have a pint or dram. Respect is a two-way street.

T.

We are all responsible for our society, our culture and each other. There are some things that are thought by some to be socially acceptable, even an inherent part of Scottish and Irish culture. (In fact there may be something to that in that it is now thought that there is a genetic component to alcoholism that is more prevalent in some ethnic groups than others.) How many drunk Irishmen jokes have you heard? Or drunk Scots jokes? I can think of more than I can count on both hands.

The point is, contrary to what some hold, it's not necessary to be a drunk, or even to drink, in order to wear a kilt or to be around those who do, whether they are kilted or not.

[macwilkin]

We are all responsible for our society, our culture and each other. There are some things that are thought by some to be socially acceptable, even an inherent part of Scottish and Irish culture. (In fact there may be something to that in that it is now thought that there is a genetic component to alcoholism that is more prevalent in some ethnic groups than others.) How many drunk Irishmen jokes have you heard? Or drunk Scots jokes? I can think of more than I can count on both hands.

The point is, contrary to what some hold, it's not necessary to be a drunk, or even to drink, to wear a kilt or to be around those who do, whether they are kilted or not.

I don't believe I ever said it was, Gil. All I pointed out was that there are different and varied views on this subject, and that all POVs should be respected, and one way to respect them is to agree to disagree.

T.

[skauwt]

in this part of Scotland getting "steamin" as some put it is a way of life for some folk whether you change the laws or rules isn't going to stop them drinking ,
i started drink at 15 (unknown to my parents)every friday night myself and my mates would have a few wee ciders as we got older most stopped there is some who take that to the extreme though... but the way i see it if a person wants to drink themselves to death then thats there choice I'm not twisting there arm
when i had my wee bachelor pad i drank more or less constant for years with my friends but i got to stage where i thought well enough
is enough
with Scotland being more multi cultural alot of folk are now realizing you don't have to get wrecked to have a good night out
at the end of the day Scottish folk will be known for a good few years yet as the" sick man of Europe " this is a tag that will take a long time to get rid of
alot of folk from around the world forget how industrial this country was most men would have a drink after work sadly that industry died in the 80s for reasons which are more political than anything so i wont go into it

you can have as many guild lines or laws to stop folks drinking away but
life's for living why restrict folk that could get hit with a bus tomorrow

if i want to drink myself stupid then then i will its my right to some guy ina suit who robs us of over paid expenses isn't going to tell me what to do we are our own masters and denying me the right to have a wee drink cos some ejjit cant handle there`s is wrong

everything in moderation is the keyword

[Pleater]

My view of drinking might be rather prejudiced, due to my experience a little while ago.

The local folk festival used to be a really nice weekend in early June, all the local singers, players and dancers came and processed through the town then dispersed to find various places to continue to play, sing and dance, some stalls were set up selling craft stuff and home made food - the town of Wimborne used to be full of music and dancing until midnight for the three days.

Now as dawn breaks on the scene there are young people drunk out of their minds rioting in the streets, the police are unable to cope, there are fights, assaults, anything smashable or throwable or bangable gets involved.

There is a huge marquee set up just to sell alcohol, every year it is increased in size, every year the problems have escalated. The town centre pubs set up extra bars in their yards and gardens, they have people pay to get in to hear the folk music that is being performed free of charge.

Some people seem to be able to drink moderately, have an enjoyable evening and toddle off home to bed no trouble to anyone, and others don't.

It seems to be mostly young people who can't cope - though the way they carry on it doesn't seem likely that they will live to grow old.

I just hope that it is not going to be a case of natural selection at work, and in a decade or so there will be a mass extinction of people under 40 who have simply sucumbed to the consequences of too much alcohol for too long.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Riverkilt]

Yikes....point of the original post was to point out there is a problem according to recent research, not to point any fingers at anyone.

Wish there was a way pure educational information was included with products containing the chemical alcohol like there are with prescription medications so folks could be aware of the effects of what's being injested.

But as Todd says, no intent to get off track here. Posted the link so folks could read for themselves...

Putting on helmet, hunkering down.

[starbkjrus]

I had no idea there was a biological reason for the specified age.

I'm embarrassed to admit I thought the choice was politically motivated.

Well Ron, I learned something along with ghostlight. When I was in college and the drinking age was raised from 18 to 21 the whole reason given at the time was it would be easier to keep booze out of high schools. (Easier to see through a fake ID that said a 16 year old was 21 than 18.) I'll not air my views on how successful this policy has been but I certainly didn't know the liver didn't mature until early 20's. Makes sense though as many other parts of the body don't either.

Thanks for the link.

[ForresterModern]

(Doctor hat on)

Ron is joking about the liver maturing at 21 moreso than 18.

Regarding cirrhosis of the liver, it literally takes years of nearly daily drinking of significant quantities of alcohol (beer, wine or had liquor, it matters not which) before ones' liver develops profound enough cirrhosis to cause significant medical problems. Most teens and young adults grow out of the "drinking as a thrill" stage by their mid 20's, at least here in the states, when they finish college and have to get real jobs to survive, or start families and "settle down". Those that continue to drink to excess several times a week or more usually are predisposed, either genetically (different alcohol metabolism and tolerances---think native americans) or socially (nothing better to do with their lives), and usually go on to either alcoholism (recognized or not) and then possibly to cirrhosis, the earliest is by around age 35-40 but more typically 50 or so. These age trajectories, however can be significantly advanced by combined drug/alcohol use, sometimes even of "safe" over the counter medications like tylenol.

(Doctor hat off)

I was around drinking age too when the US federal government forced changes in drinking age laws as part of requirements for states to get or maintain federal subsidies, believe it or not, on highway funding. The major reason quoted back then was the rapidly rising incidence of drunk driving, and the frequency with which that drunk driving was being done by those under 21. That coincided with the MADD blitz of media and the major expansion of police enforcement and crackdowns on drunk driving. Things have been different that last 25 years or so since those events creeped into being all about the same time.



jeff :ootd:

[Riverkilt]

Worse, the frontal lobes of the brain (decision making dept.) don't come in until about 24-26 for men. So we make poor decisions in our youth.

Folks are forever asking me, "What's wrong with my teenager??" I answer, "No frontal lobes yet."

[gilmore]

...if i want to drink myself stupid then then i will its my right to some guy ina suit who robs us of over paid expenses isn't going to tell me what to do we are our own masters and denying me the right to have a wee drink cos some ejjit cant handle there`s is wrong...

This was the argument that was used, unsuccessfully, by the tobacco companies in fighting restrictions on smoking, and it's a false one.

The direct consequences to health from both smoking and drinking cost all of us, since we have to pay for them, either through governmentally funded health care or here in the US through higher insurance premiums for private health care.

Also it doesn't take into consideration the actual damage done to others by those who have "drunk themselves stupid" at the moment, e.g., some one on this very forum had his finger broken a few months ago by some one who was drunk and got into a senseless altercation with him, as I recall.

[Larry124]

Not only this subject, but in my opinion discussions that begin with health and moderation can go downhill to prohibitionist sermons and advocacy of Nanny State imposition by some of their beliefs about vice and virtue.
Morality in other words.

I’m sure (because I’ve heard it) that in the USA kilt wearing might meet someone’s definition of “improper” behavior.

Behavioral judgments can be a slippery slope.
Behavioral judgments codified in law in my opinion have a mixed record.