St Andrew's day ink

[MacLowlife]

This article is also the subject of a thread "St Andrew's Day Ink" which also elicited some wise commentary. MODS, can they be merged?

[QMcK]

I'm shocked to see such a highly opinionated, derogatory article from the BBC.

[Bugbear]

... The thing is that we of the New World don't have an identity in the same way that those of the Old have. We don't have traditions, and language, and history reaching back before civilization itself. Instead our identities are forged intentionally. ...

I'm not so sure about that...

[Bugbear]

... I can't speak for people outside America (and I don't even pretend to speak for all Americans), but to me the answer is simple. Americans don't have much of a history or a culture of our own. Everything we are, we brought from somewhere else. Those who were born and raised in Scotland - and elsewhere in Europe and Asia - have a pretty good idea where they came from. They have a long history, plenty of cultural roots, etc. We Americans can only look back so far in our own history before we run up against the proverbial wall. We came from somewhere else. Where else would we look besides where we came from? ...

I'm puzzeled by this notion of Americans having no history or cultural roots.

[OC Richard]

Looks like more of the same ol same ol, the English looking down their noses at the Scots and seeing them as a caricature.

From the exploding Scotsman, red-bearded baby, and pennypinching poet in Monty Python to the Scottish innkeeper who keeps up a facade of eccentricity in Little Britain, it's just more of the same.

About this ancestry thing, go back a few generations and all of us of European ancestry are interrelated anyway...all of these people claiming descent from such-and-such a king or chief are actually correct.

Myself, most of my known ancestry is English, some is Irish and some is supposedly Scottish (with those generic British names like Stanley and Cooper and Cook etc who can say). I do travel to England and visit some of the places my people came from as well as travelling to Scotland and playing pipes with a pipe band on occasion.

[Phil]

The thing is that we of the New World don't have an identity in the same way that those of the Old have. We don't have traditions, and language, and history reaching back before civilization itself.

As a native of the "Old World" I don't see it that way. The thought that things around me are perhaps hundreds of years old never occurs to me. It is not a matter of living in the past, interesting as history may be. What does occur to me, however, is the fact that I belong to a single, distinct and identifiable nation whose values and traditions I was raised with and which I share with most of my compatriots. To be brought up in a "melting pot" with a bewildering range of values and traditions brought by immigrants from many disparate lands, none of which are allowed to prevail in the imperative for national unity, perhaps is the reason now for identifying with a distinct background and saying "This is where I choose to belong".

[Phil]

I'm puzzeled by this notion of Americans having no history or cultural roots.

I know. For a nation which has existed independentlyfor over 200 years not to mention its colonial past before that it is puzzling. Is it because many Americans only see their culture as a reflection of the various cultures imported by immigrants? I don't believe that is entirely true, however the culture that is perceived as peculiarly American is all fairly recent. Coca-Cola, Hollywood, Jazz, cowboys etc..

[OC Richard]

...folks born in the UK really can't understand what it's like not to have history.

Sometimes it seems to be the reverse to me: so many Americans can trace their ancestry back several generations to a specific immigrant from The Old Country (whatever country that might be) and usually a specific place in that country. For example I'm descended from a guy who came to Jamestown from England in the 1620's, another who came to Virginia from London in 1762, another who came to Philadelphia from Co Cavan in the 1840's, and a family who came to Winnifrede, WV from Tywardreath, Cornwall in the 1880's.

My wife's boss is an English guy. One day the people in her office were talking about geneology and where they came from and he said that he had no idea about his family beyond his immediate relatives. Most Brits I've talked to seem to be like that: they don't think about such things because they didn't "come" from anywhere: they've 'always' been there.

We in the USA form organisations like The Sons of the American Revolution and we fondly recall our Civil War ancestors.

Can you imagine the English forming The Sons of the Battle of Hastings? They would laugh at the idea I think.

[Bugbear]

I know. For a nation which has existed independentlyfor over 200 years not to mention its colonial past before that it is puzzling. Is it because many Americans only see their culture as a reflection of the various cultures imported by immigrants? I don't believe that is entirely true, however the culture that is perceived as peculiarly American is all fairly recent. Coca-Cola, Hollywood, Jazz, cowboys etc..

Well, I look at the underlying framework of those things you just listed and see roots going back centuries. I live in the desert South West which has a cultural flavor going back eons. Corn (maize) and beans as a traditional food, for example.

[Phil]

Well, I look at the underlying framework of those things you just listed and see roots going back centuries. I live in the desert South West which has a cultural flavor going back eons. Corn (maize) and beans as a traditional food, for example.

Exactly. And I wasn't trying to overlook native American history rather trying to answer the question of the historical roots of mainly European settlers.