Modern tartans- historical tartans

[figheadair]

Would some weaver just see a sett he liked and simply make something roughly similar

Were most tartans based off of setts that already existed at the time?

We have no idea how setts were developed pre-1750 but it's reasonable to assume that some patterns existed at any given time and that there would have been (new) variations based on colours available and/or preference.

were there only certain existing tartans inside specific "rules?"

There is no evidence that there were any 'rules' until the early C19th.

How much room was there for variation?

As there were no rules there was every oportunity for variation.

[PalmerPirate]

We have no idea how setts were developed pre-1750 but it's reasonable to assume that some patterns existed at any given time and that there would have been (new) variations based on colours available and/or preference.



There is no evidence that there were any 'rules' until the early C19th.



As there were no rules there was every oportunity for variation.

Thank you for such a prompt and precise response! I have but one question left to ask- I understand that red is a higher-rank tartan color, but would it be appropriate for somebody who was middle-rank? By that I mean somebody who was upper-middle-rank, if such a thing existed.

[figheadair]

Thank you for such a prompt and precise response! I have but one question left to ask- I understand that red is a higher-rank tartan color, but would it be appropriate for somebody who was middle-rank? By that I mean somebody who was upper-middle-rank, if such a thing existed.

Pre-c1760 a tartan with lots red in it was generally the preserve of the gentry simply because the dyestuff was more expensive. Those with less income might well have opted for a pattern with a red stripe rather than the whole plaid being predominately red.

[Nick the DSM]

Its said that the Morrison Red tartan was created circa or even before the year of Culloden.

[O'Callaghan]

Tartan came to Scotland with the Gaels who came from Ireland, in the form of the brat, which was a cloak. The Gaels also would have brought with them the Brehon law, which did include a 'sumptuary' law laying down numbers of colours and specific colours according to rank or station in life.

However, I'm not sure to what extent the sumptuary law persisted on the Scottish side of the Irish Sea. Perhaps not to any great extent or for any great length of time, but maybe for a time the colours red and purple would have been limited to chiefs or the like.

This sounds like a topic for a history thesis, and I am certainly no historian, but I don't think it was only cost. Of course, the purpose of the sumptuary law was to forbid you from dressing 'above your station', for want of a better expression, so the colours and combinations that were restricted would have necessarily have been more expensive, making it hard to separate cost from actual restrictions.

ETA: Of course, by the 18th century, all such restrictions would be long gone, AFAIK. It would have helped if I'd read the original post first, wouldn't it, LOL.

[figheadair]

Its said that the Morrison Red tartan was created circa or even before the year of Culloden.

Like a lot of tartans 'it's said' but I've not seen the proof. In the case of the Red Morisson the claim is based on the fact that a piece of material was said to have been found in an old Morrison family bible during demolition work on a Black House in Lewis in 1935. The bible contained a hand written reference to the tartan and is said to be dated 1747. If that we true, and the piece was the tartan referenced then it would indeed be a truly old sett.

Unfortunately there are two versions of the sett which suggests some doubt about the correct version. I have never seen either the letter of the sample and have to question its existance/dating. Has anyone ever seen the piece and/or known where there s a picture of it?

[figheadair]

Tartan came to Scotland with the Gaels who came from Ireland, in the form of the brat, which was a cloak. The Gaels also would have brought with them the Brehon law, which did include a 'sumptuary' law laying down numbers of colours and specific colours according to rank or station in life.

However, I'm not sure to what extent the sumptuary law persisted on the Scottish side of the Irish Sea. Perhaps not to any great extent or for any great length of time, but maybe for a time the colours red and purple would have been limited to chiefs or the like.

This sounds like a topic for a history thesis, and I am certainly no historian, but I don't think it was only cost. Of course, the purpose of the sumptuary law was to forbid you from dressing 'above your station', for want of a better expression, so the colours and combinations that were restricted would have necessarily have been more expensive, making it hard to separate cost from actual restrictions.

ETA: Of course, by the 18th century, all such restrictions would be long gone, AFAIK. It would have helped if I'd read the original post first, wouldn't it, LOL.

There is no evidence that the use of a number of colours in tartan ever dictated rank. The claim appeared in McClintock's 'Old Irish & Higland Dress' without any historical reference. The claim has long been regarded as false.

[AllenJ]

I'm trying to dig up the exact quote and source but I can not find it at the moment. At any rate...there is a reference in Clan Grant history where one of the pre-Culloden chiefs wanted Grants to be dressed in a tartan that was red and green... "broad-springed" or something like that was the term used. It certainly does not support a specific sett but a color preference for Clan members. But this is a bit of a middle ground between no clan association and specific adoptions of tartans by the clans. The Grants also adopted the Black Watch tartan very early because of the Clan's long association with the regiment.

[figheadair]

I'm trying to dig up the exact quote and source but I can not find it at the moment. At any rate...there is a reference in Clan Grant history where one of the pre-Culloden chiefs wanted Grants to be dressed in a tartan that was red and green... "broad-springed" or something like that was the term used. It certainly does not support a specific sett but a color preference for Clan members. But this is a bit of a middle ground between no clan association and specific adoptions of tartans by the clans. The Grants also adopted the Black Watch tartan very early because of the Clan's long association with the regiment.

The red and green direction was for a hunting match and referred to the clothing to be worn by the Chief's servants. In modern terms it would be something along the lines of 'Okay chaps, we'e got this big event coming up so can you all turn up at least looking sort of similar. Make sure that you have a big red and green type sett.

The grants wear Government as undress by virtue of them Captaining one of the pre-regimentated Six Independent Companies. Grant of Ballindalloch I seem to recall: 3 lead by Campbells, 1 each by Grant, Munro and Fraser.

[Sir William]

Hello, I'm new to this forum and somewhat new to kilts in a historical context.
I'm considering reenacting as a mid-rank '45 Jacobite. I'm not new to the field of 18th century reenacting, so I already have/can easily obtain most of the things needed for an impression. What I'm curious about is what tartans would be historically appropriate for a Jacobite?

I also belong to an 18th century Jacobite living history group and we try to find inexpensive non-descript generic tartans to wear. One of the best compliments I ever received was from a tartan spotter who couldn't place what I was wearing. Don't be afraid to mix tartans either - try to use 2 or more different tartans for your jacket, waistcoat, plaid and hose.

You can invest in a documented early tartan, such as Peter's (figheadair) Culloden tartan, but it will be relatively expensive and consequently you'll be reluctant to do anything that might damage it. At least two people in my group have purchased some of this tartan, but it will probably be reserved for functions where it is unlikely to be easily torn, stained, burned, or otherwise damaged.