Question about Regimental Tartans

[McElmurry]

Still, noone has really answered the question... which is whether wearing the tartan your ancestor had the right to wear (by means of his regimental role) is considered acceptable in terms of the clan theory ideas. I know you can wear anything you like, but it would just be nice to know whether it fits the theory or not.

Thanks!

I am not a native Scot but based on my reading on this site I believe the theory goes something like this. If you are born in the Highlands you grow up knowing your tartan, you wear your tartan, and that is that. If you are a member of the Scottish diaspora and wish to follow a similar theory (practice) you would do a little or a lot of research until you are satisfied, join a Clan Association based on a close or not so close connection, wear your Clan tartan and never look back.

A traditionalist of the first order would wear their Clan tartan to the exclusion of all others, unless they are in a pipe band or a regiment. A traditionalist of the second order would only wear the tartans of one Clan but may wear other universal tartans. Because the Black Watch is a universal tartan, if you want to be a traditionalist of the second order wearing the Black Watch does not preclude you from choosing a Clan, and thus a tartan, in the future, if you do not already have one.

So, if you wear a Clan tartan and Black Watch (not at the same time of course) a few may consider you slightly extravagant but most on this site would think you were showing tremendous restraint and had a poorly developed wardrobe indeed. If someone asks you about the Black Watch you have a perfectly good explanation for wearing it and you are unlikely to be asked anyway because it is widely known as a universal tartan.

Someone please correct me if I have failed to understand or correctly describe the traditionalist Clan theory (or actually practice) as it applies to the OPs question.

[Downunder Kilt]

I love the look of the tartan. I prefer the top one of the two pictures in the post above, but both are great. I'm loving all the great trivia on these tartans!

Still, noone has really answered the question... which is whether wearing the tartan your ancestor had the right to wear (by means of his regimental role) is considered acceptable in terms of the clan theory ideas. I know you can wear anything you like, but it would just be nice to know whether it fits the theory or not.

Thanks!

Ruth, in relation to the Black Watch, Government Sett or 1A. I am of the opinion that you have every right to wear it, with the added bonus that you are honouring an ancestor by doing so. Although it is also a clan tartan, you are going to wear it for the aforementioned reason. Please don't get too caught up in the clan theory thing regarding this tartan. I don't think anyone would pull you aside and give you grief for wearing the black watch tartan.

[figheadair]

The Government Sett was at one time worn by all Highland regiments, until the Gordon Highlanders were raised and the decision was made to add a yellow line. The Argylls were a living reminder of those early times.

Oh no! There were several regiments that pre-date the 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) that wore tartans other than the Government including the: 64th, 77th, 78th and 79th.

[robbiethepiper]

I am not a native Scot but based on my reading on this site I believe the theory goes something like this. If you are born in the Highlands you grow up knowing your tartan, you wear your tartan, and that is that. If you are a member of the Scottish diaspora and wish to follow a similar theory (practice) you would do a little or a lot of research until you are satisfied, join a Clan Association based on a close or not so close connection, wear your Clan tartan and never look back.

A traditionalist of the first order would wear their Clan tartan to the exclusion of all others, unless they are in a pipe band or a regiment. A traditionalist of the second order would only wear the tartans of one Clan but may wear other universal tartans. Because the Black Watch is a universal tartan, if you want to be a traditionalist of the second order wearing the Black Watch does not preclude you from choosing a Clan, and thus a tartan, in the future, if you do not already have one.

So, if you wear a Clan tartan and Black Watch (not at the same time of course) a few may consider you slightly extravagant but most on this site would think you were showing tremendous restraint and had a poorly developed wardrobe indeed. If someone asks you about the Black Watch you have a perfectly good explanation for wearing it and you are unlikely to be asked anyway because it is widely known as a universal tartan.

Someone please correct me if I have failed to understand or correctly describe the traditionalist Clan theory (or actually practice) as it applies to the OPs question.

[robbiethepiper]

Well put! I am a Scot and traditionalist. I wear only my clan tartan BUT - am considering a PV kilt for some occasions because of their specific benefits (cost, washing etc.) Not made in my tartan (Kerr hunting) so considering a generic tatan, possibly National Scot as I have some political issues with the Government Sett, though I do like the colours....

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Oh no! There were several regiments that pre-date the 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) that wore tartans other than the Government including the: 64th, 77th, 78th and 79th.

Thanks, Peter! I was going to comment the same yesterday but was too tired! I'd highly recommend Jamie Scarlett's book, The Origin and Development of Military Tartans: A Reappraisal, to anyone interested in the subject.

[OC Richard]

Yes Barnes lists 19 Scottish regiments raised and disbanded between 1745 and 1800- I wasn't counting those, but the regiments which survived past 1800 and up to the 1881 reforms. (In many cases it's unclear just how some of these 18th century short-lived regiments were dressed.)

You're right about the Camerons and the Seaforths: Barnes shows them raised 1793, the Gordons 1794. The Camerons were the only suriving kilted regiment to wear neither the Government tartan nor a tartan based on the Government tartan.

[xman]

I would say simply that it is honourable to do so.

[southpacifickilt]

Yes Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, or A&SH, but commonly called simply "the Argylls".

The tartan they wore was somewhat different in colouring than that worn by the Black Watch.

Here are the Drum Major and Pipe Major of each regiment (shorty before both regiments were swallowed up in The Royal Regiment Of Scotland).

The colouring of the tartan worn by the Argylls is very interesting. Note that the green is rather light but the blue remains dark, very different from Black Watch tartan rendered in "ancient colours" where both the green and the blue are lighter.





The new Royal Regiment Of Scotland wears kilts in the Argylls colouring. RRS kilts are widely available on Ebay so it would be easy for you to pick one up. The RRS kilts are boxpleated just as the Argylls kilts were.

The Government Sett was at one time worn by all Highland regiments, until the Gordon Highlanders were raised and the decision was made to add a yellow line. The Argylls were a living reminder of those early times.

a little unrelated (maybe relevant . . . if Ruth wants something more along the lines of the grandfathers kilt ) but what kind of box pleats are those? newsome style or millitary?

[longhuntr74]

a little unrelated (maybe relevant . . . if Ruth wants something more along the lines of the grandfathers kilt ) but what kind of box pleats are those? newsome style or millitary?

OC Richard is referring to military box pleats...

...but that being said, I thought that, with the amalgamation, the RRoS took the A&SH tartan, but the knife pleats of the Black Watch for their new kilts. Are the RRoS kilts knife or military box pleated. I thought it was knife, but could be completely wrong. Can somebody confirm?