Help identify this clan crest

[Chas]

Chas posts "Notice that both the crest and the motto are substantially different".

Chas
Just to clarify “DIA ’S NAOMH AINDREA” translated 'God and St Andrew' is an addition to the overall Coat of Arms of the Chief of Keppoch and not merely the clan badge. It appears on the Coat of Arms in addition to the chosen clan motto 'Air Muir's Air Tir'.

Eck
Just to clarify, my post was a copy and paste from the May 2004 Grant of Lord Lyon (Sir Malcolm Innes of Edingight KCVO) to Ranald Alasdair Macdonald of Keppoch, where the motto is given twice - once correctly and once incorrectly.

Regards

Chas

[ctbuchanan]

Hey I thought I would give it a shot. But more knowledgeable members have prevailed.

[Eck]

Hi Chas

Yes I see that and understand. I was'nt challenging anything, I was just trying to explain in case anyone else reading this post got the impression we were dealing with two different clan mottos.
The cut and paste brief refers to the Keppoch Clan Chiefs granted Coat of Arms not his chosen clan badge in which he uses 'Air Muir's Air Tir'
Here is an image of the Coat of Arms which all will see is entirely different from his clan badge



The badge in the initial post with the central arm and sword detail and the motto 'Air Muir's Air Tir' is the one I am primarily trying to identify. I'm stumped also hence the request for help.
Regards
Eck (Alex)

[Cygnus]

A dexter arm in armour embowed and grasping a sword is a surprisingly common crest (I believe it is associated with the Wallaces, MacDonald of Clanranald, and the Dewars, among others). If I remember correctly, it wasn't all that uncommon for armigers, especially those of higher station, to wear their crest in a strap and buckle rather than the circlet.

For these reasons, I think you may have a hard time finding the bearer of this crest - especially if he was an individual armiger and not the head of a clan or family.

That's not to say you should stop looking, though!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Saw this crest on ebay. The motto is 'Air muir's air tir' which I believe is the gaelic version of the latin 'Per mare per terras' which is generally accepted as one of the clan macdonald mottos'.
I know the new Keppoch chief uses the gaelic version but the centre piece arm brandishing a sword has me stumped for any possible MacDonald connection other than it is similar to Clanranald.
Anyone any suggestions?

I may be in error, but I believe that may be the badge of Count Randal MacDonnell of the Glens, Mac Iain Mor, chief of his clan.

[Eck]

Hi MacMillan of Rathdown - Interesting, can you direct me to any link or whatever that suggests this connection that I may pursue it further?
Thanks
Eck

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Hi MacMillan of Rathdown - Interesting, can you direct me to any link or whatever that suggests this connection that I may pursue it further?
Thanks
Eck

Actually Randal's crest is an arm embowed holding a cross crosslet fitchee-- so I am sorry to say that I misled in my original posting.

[creagdhubh]

@ CT - Well, the Grant gives the crest thus -

and on a Wreath of the Liveries is set for Crest an eagle displayed Gules crowned of a ducal coronet Or, and in an Escrol over the same this Motto “AIR MUIR ’S TIR” and in another Escrol below the same this Motto “DIA ’S NAOMH AINDREA”;

Notice that both the crest and the motto are substantially different.

@ Kyle - frankly, I don't know. It is easier to say what it is not rather than what it is.
I get this feeling that it might be one of the newer clans that has been armigerous, but has now found a chief.

Regards


Chas

Good point, Chas.

[creagdhubh]

I have checked a complete, visual listing of all the clan badges that APS currently has in production, and this particular badge is not amongst the collection, however, judging by how the badge looks, it is most definitely made by APS. I am definitely perplexed, and very interested to figure out the provenance of the crest and motto!

Cheers,

[Eck]

Hi everyone who has shown an interest and puzzled like me, thanks for your input.
Kyle, you have given me an idea. As it is very similar to an AP product and indeed may have been manufactured by them, I have emailed the company and asked if they can help identify the badge. Lets hope they can solve the mystery.
Will update once I get a response
Regards
Eck (Alex)